[noggin]

Though all of our movies run a little bit faster - and every frame is equal

What do you mean? There are unequal frames in NTSC?

noggin is talking about drop frames.

No - I'm not talking about drop frames. We Europeans aren't cursed with drop frames...

I'm talking about 24p movies and drama being sped up to 25p in Europe for broadcast TV - so we always have the 4% speed-up.

The unequal frames is a reference to 3:2 - where one frame is shown for 50% longer than another (i.e. 3:2 pull-down). In Europe we use 2:2 pulldown and 25p to show 24fps content - so avoid the 3:2 motion judder.

People brought up watching 3:2 24p at 60 (or 23.976 at 59.94 if you want to be accurate and drop-framey) don't usually find 3:2 a problem. Those of us brought up watching 2:2 often find it horrible (when I got my first Blu-ray player and HDTV I had to replace the HDTV in less than a year because I couldn't watch 24p with 3:2 and my first TV wouldn't display 24p at nice multiple)

[DrowningApe]

If you want Android and DRMd streaming service apps like Netflix, that can do 4k, and has the ability to run Kodi well, then the Shield can't be beat. Its an excellent box that solves so many problems that it's totally worth the price. If you just want to run Kodi get a chromebox or an Acer Revo Build, both of which are about $150, and both of which do correct framerates and deinterlacing. The Revo Build has Windows installed, but doesn't have enough storage, RAM, or CPU power to run it properly. It also has a Celeron 3050, which is less powerful than the older Broadwell Celeron in the Chromebox, but which has hardware decoding of HEVC video.

Sent from my XT1575

Just a correction all the revo builds i've seen have come with no OS. 32GB + 2GB ram + n3050 is plenty to run openelec/linux for kodi. Your phrasing sounds like you were suggesting it struggles running kodi not windows. Also the revo has been on offer recently as low as £50.

Sorry, poor phrasing on my part if my meaning wasn't clear. I use a Revo Build for LIBREELEC, and it works really well. The version sold in the US comes with Windows, which I did leave on the MMC drive and bypass by booting from a sandisk Extreme USB stick. It's not quite as fast as my Chromebox, but the image quality is better in some way which I can quite quantify.

Sent from my XT1575

[drhill]

What do you mean? There are unequal frames in NTSC?

noggin is talking about drop frames.

No - I'm not talking about drop frames. We Europeans aren't cursed with drop frames...

I'm talking about 24p movies and drama being sped up to 25p in Europe for broadcast TV - so we always have the 4% speed-up.

The unequal frames is a reference to 3:2 - where one frame is shown for 50% longer than another (i.e. 3:2 pull-down). In Europe we use 2:2 pulldown and 25p to show 24fps content - so avoid the 3:2 motion judder.

People brought up watching 3:2 24p at 60 (or 23.976 at 59.94 if you want to be accurate and drop-framey) don't usually find 3:2 a problem. Those of us brought up watching 2:2 often find it horrible (when I got my first Blu-ray player and HDTV I had to replace the HDTV in less than a year because I couldn't watch 24p with 3:2 and my first TV wouldn't display 24p at nice multiple)

Telecined content completely slipped my mind. I generally only watch sports on live tv and everything else I watch is either native or inverse telecined back to native.

[noggin]

noggin is talking about drop frames.

No - I'm not talking about drop frames. We Europeans aren't cursed with drop frames...

I'm talking about 24p movies and drama being sped up to 25p in Europe for broadcast TV - so we always have the 4% speed-up.

The unequal frames is a reference to 3:2 - where one frame is shown for 50% longer than another (i.e. 3:2 pull-down). In Europe we use 2:2 pulldown and 25p to show 24fps content - so avoid the 3:2 motion judder.

People brought up watching 3:2 24p at 60 (or 23.976 at 59.94 if you want to be accurate and drop-framey) don't usually find 3:2 a problem. Those of us brought up watching 2:2 often find it horrible (when I got my first Blu-ray player and HDTV I had to replace the HDTV in less than a year because I couldn't watch 24p with 3:2 and my first TV wouldn't display 24p at nice multiple)

Telecined content completely slipped my mind. I generally only watch sports on live tv and everything else I watch is either native or inverse telecined back to native.

It's not just telecined content - lots of shows are shot digitally (i.e. on electronic cameras) at 24p (film is quite rare for TV production these days) and this is also 3:2-ed to get to 60i/p (*) these days. It's not just film content run through a telecine (the machine that converts film to video) that is 3:2 these days.

(*) Yes - 23.976/59.94 really...

[drhill]

Yes but that content can be de-telecined back to 24p. I actually only watch sports live. Anything else is timeshifted which includes commercials removed and detelecined. Saves space and time. I can't think of anything I watch that isn't 24p at that point.

Point is, half your joke totally went over my head.

[wesk05]

Yes but that content can be de-telecined back to 24p.

@noggin loathes folks who calls 3:2/2:3 pulldown as telecine . In his opinion, telecine should only refer to the machine that does the motion picture film transfer.

[noggin]

Yes but that content can be de-telecined back to 24p.

@noggin loathes folks who calls 3:2/2:3 pulldown as telecine . In his opinion, telecine should only refer to the machine that does the motion picture film transfer.

Yes - because a Telecine is the name for a device that transfers film to television, and the process of transferring film to video is called telecineing. The word comes from Tele (derive from Television rather than the original Greek for 'far' I think) and Cine (from film i.e. cinema)

The Telecine doesn't automatically add 3:2 pull-down - in Europe almost all 24fps films are telecined to 50i or 50p video using 2:2 pulldown with speed-up (so the output of a 50Hz Telecine usually has 2:2 pulldown). It's only Telecines in, or generating content for, 60Hz regions that need to cope with 24p to 60i/p conversion using 3:2 (*) pull-down.

Similarly 24p video, not shot on film, doesn't need to be transferred via a Telecine (film to video transfer) as there is no film to transfer (which is what a Telecine does) - so when 24p video has 3:2 pulldown added for 60i/p this isn't done using a telecine, it's done either by the VTR playing back the 24p master, or in some other post-production or server-playout method now we don't use tape so much.

3:2 != Telecine

(*) 24=23.976 / 60=59.94

I know I'm probably fighting a losing battle - but there is a reason for words to exist and be used accurately, and as I work in the industry I try to be consistent. I'd be laughed at at work if I used Telecine to mean 3:2... If I said that Blu-ray material has been telecined by mistake people would think I'd gone mad...

The 3:2=Telecine terminology seems to have come about from PC users in North America needing to remove 3:2 pulldown and convert 60i/60p to 24p for re-encoding etc. and was probably coined but those who had probably never seen or used a Telecine in the real world. I used to sit in the room next door to one made by Rank Cintel...

[noggin]

Yes but that content can be de-telecined back to 24p. I actually only watch sports live. Anything else is timeshifted which includes commercials removed and detelecined. Saves space and time. I can't think of anything I watch that isn't 24p at that point.

Aaaghhhh! No - it can have the 3:2 pull-down removed rather than be "de-telecined"...

Telecine = transfer of film to video. So if de-telecine is the reverse of that then, if you want to de-telecine (as opposed to remove 3:2) you probably need to 'telerecord' (UK) or 'kinescope' (US) it, which is the process of writing video back to film (a process common in the days before video tape was widespread, and quite a while after for international distribution).

(These days where you use Digital Intermediate technology for movie post production the devices that perform the same function as Telecines are more likely to be called 'film scanners' and the output system is now more widely known as a 'film recorder')

Point is, half your joke totally went over my head.

I think you pay me too much of a compliment to describe it as a joke...