[mrwish]

I guess the artefacting is down to them both using only 128kbps for the E-AC3 2.0 tracks. I find the French channels can be quite bad for this to be fair!

Out of interest what was the difference in how it handles DD+ 2.0 compared with DD+SUR by default?

I've checked and I'm definitely in 'auto' mode and both are shown on the display as '[DD] Surround' with some audio through the back speakers.

[noggin]

I guess the artefacting is down to them both using only 128kbps for the E-AC3 2.0 tracks. I find the French channels can be quite bad for this to be fair!

Out of interest what was the difference in how it handles DD+ 2.0 compared with DD+SUR by default?

No difference - both continued in my preferred 2.0 mode - which is stereo. The DD+SUR TF1 clip didn't trigger a change (that may be an option I haven't enabled...)

I've checked and I'm definitely in 'auto' mode and both are shown on the display as '[DD] Surround' with some audio through the back speakers.

My Onkyo clearly displays different OSDs for the two - only the TF1 clip has "DD+SUR 2.0", the La Sexta is "DD+ 2.0".

[mrwish]

I guess the artefacting is down to them both using only 128kbps for the E-AC3 2.0 tracks. I find the French channels can be quite bad for this to be fair!

Out of interest what was the difference in how it handles DD+ 2.0 compared with DD+SUR by default?

No difference - both continued in my preferred 2.0 mode - which is stereo. The DD+SUR TF1 clip didn't trigger a change (that may be an option I haven't enabled...)

I've checked and I'm definitely in 'auto' mode and both are shown on the display as '[DD] Surround' with some audio through the back speakers.

My Onkyo clearly displays different OSDs for the two - only the TF1 clip has "DD+SUR 2.0", the La Sexta is "DD+ 2.0".

Interesting! As you say, they must have different metadata being transmitted then!

[noggin]

Could you do a couple of recordings of TF1 (main evening news - not including the idents?, any old SD shows that will definitely be stereo?)? Be interesting to know if it is dynamically switching between DD+SUR and DD+ or if it is just a permanent flag.

My gut feeling is that this may be a bit of a dead-end... I'll make some AAC ITV HD recordings and watch live through our ARC-connected TV (which transcodes 2.0 and 5.1 AAC to 2.0 and 5.1 DD) - but I suspect it is a straight 2.0 AAC broadcast with no matrix surround metadata.

[mrwish]

Could you do a couple of recordings of TF1 (main evening news - not including the idents?, any old SD shows that will definitely be stereo?)? Be interesting to know if it is dynamically switching between DD+SUR and DD+ or if it is just a permanent flag.

My gut feeling is that this may be a bit of a dead-end... I'll make some AAC ITV HD recordings and watch live through our ARC-connected TV (which transcodes 2.0 and 5.1 AAC to 2.0 and 5.1 DD) - but I suspect it is a straight 2.0 AAC broadcast with no matrix surround metadata.

Yep no problem! Will have a look at doing this over the next day or so!

So if it were strictly following the flags the amp should be treating TF1 as surround (as it's being flagged) and LaSexta as just stereo on the clips I uploaded?

[noggin]

Could you do a couple of recordings of TF1 (main evening news - not including the idents?, any old SD shows that will definitely be stereo?)? Be interesting to know if it is dynamically switching between DD+SUR and DD+ or if it is just a permanent flag.

My gut feeling is that this may be a bit of a dead-end... I'll make some AAC ITV HD recordings and watch live through our ARC-connected TV (which transcodes 2.0 and 5.1 AAC to 2.0 and 5.1 DD) - but I suspect it is a straight 2.0 AAC broadcast with no matrix surround metadata.

Yep no problem! Will have a look at doing this over the next day or so!

So if it were strictly following the flags the amp should be treating TF1 as surround (as it's being flagged) and LaSexta as just stereo on the clips I uploaded?

I can't say for certain - but my Onkyo thought they were different and gave a different OSD report (DD+ 2.0 vs DD+SUR 2.0) for them.

[noggin]

I have a strong feeling the reports of AAC Freeview HD stuff on ITV containing 2.0 matrix surround metadata may be a red herring...

I watched both Despicable Me and Knocked Up on ITV HD on Freeview HD yesterday. I recorded them in TV Headend and also listened to them on my Onkyo Amp with DD Transcode enabled and my amp only showed 2.0 DD with no indication that there was any Matrix Surround (unlike the TF1 clip posted). Manually switching my amp from listening to 2.0 content in Stereo to listening to 2.0 in Pro Logic, I had elements of content in the rear surround channels.

Looking at ffprobe and Media Info I can see no obvious change in the AAC data reported between clips of movie content and clips of 2.0 ITV stereo stuff (like the preceding news bulletin) apart from the presence of a secondary Audio Description stream during the movies.

ITV News

Code:

[STREAM]
index=1
codec_name=aac_latm
codec_long_name=AAC LATM (Advanced Audio Coding LATM syntax)
profile=LC
codec_type=audio
codec_time_base=1/48000
codec_tag_string=[17][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0011
sample_fmt=fltp
sample_rate=48000
channels=2
channel_layout=stereo
bits_per_sample=0
id=0xca
r_frame_rate=0/0
avg_frame_rate=0/0
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=5274585297
start_time=58606.503300
duration_ts=14363520
duration=159.594667
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=eng
[/STREAM]

Knocked Up

Code:

[STREAM]
index=1
codec_name=aac_latm
codec_long_name=AAC LATM (Advanced Audio Coding LATM syntax)
profile=LC
codec_type=audio
codec_time_base=1/48000
codec_tag_string=[17][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0011
sample_fmt=fltp
sample_rate=48000
channels=2
channel_layout=stereo
bits_per_sample=0
id=0xca
r_frame_rate=0/0
avg_frame_rate=0/0
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=5340280017
start_time=59336.444633
duration_ts=13580160
duration=150.890667
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=eng
[/STREAM]
[STREAM]
index=2
codec_name=aac_latm
codec_long_name=AAC LATM (Advanced Audio Coding LATM syntax)
profile=HE-AACv2
codec_type=audio
codec_time_base=1/48000
codec_tag_string=[17][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0011
sample_fmt=fltp
sample_rate=48000
channels=2
channel_layout=stereo
bits_per_sample=0
id=0xce
r_frame_rate=0/0
avg_frame_rate=0/0
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=5340283857
start_time=59336.487300
duration_ts=13578240
duration=150.869333
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=1
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=eng
[/STREAM]

Despicable Me

Code:

[STREAM]
index=1
codec_name=aac_latm
codec_long_name=AAC LATM (Advanced Audio Coding LATM syntax)
profile=LC
codec_type=audio
codec_time_base=1/48000
codec_tag_string=[17][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0011
sample_fmt=fltp
sample_rate=48000
channels=2
channel_layout=stereo
bits_per_sample=0
id=0xca
r_frame_rate=0/0
avg_frame_rate=0/0
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=3600437457
start_time=40004.860633
duration_ts=18572160
duration=206.357333
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=eng
[/STREAM]
[STREAM]
index=2
codec_name=aac_latm
codec_long_name=AAC LATM (Advanced Audio Coding LATM syntax)
profile=HE-AACv2
codec_type=audio
codec_time_base=1/48000
codec_tag_string=[17][0][0][0]
codec_tag=0x0011
sample_fmt=fltp
sample_rate=48000
channels=2
channel_layout=stereo
bits_per_sample=0
id=0xce
r_frame_rate=0/0
avg_frame_rate=0/0
time_base=1/90000
start_pts=3600437457
start_time=40004.860633
duration_ts=N/A
duration=N/A
bit_rate=N/A
max_bit_rate=N/A
bits_per_raw_sample=N/A
nb_frames=N/A
nb_read_frames=N/A
nb_read_packets=N/A
DISPOSITION:default=0
DISPOSITION:dub=0
DISPOSITION:original=0
DISPOSITION:comment=0
DISPOSITION:lyrics=0
DISPOSITION:karaoke=0
DISPOSITION:forced=0
DISPOSITION:hearing_impaired=0
DISPOSITION:visual_impaired=1
DISPOSITION:clean_effects=0
DISPOSITION:attached_pic=0
TAG:language=eng
[/STREAM]

[mrwish]

Sorry it's taken a while! It's actually quite difficult to find stuff on TF1 which isn't native HD.

I've got a couple of recordings from a few of the different French channels though to compare (they all have E-AC3 2.0 128kbps audio tracks) -

US Drama in HD on TF1 (the most likely to have Prologic if it's being transmitted) -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5232...7-03-01.ts

Magazine/Documentary on NT1 (in HD, probably normal stereo - this channel is the same group and multiplex as TF1 so should be using the same audio configuration) -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5232...7-03-01.ts

Magazine on France 5 (This channel is always upscaled SD even though it's broadcast in 1920x1080i - the playout has not yet been upgraded to HD) -

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5232...7-03-01.ts