Confused About Pixel Formats/Colorspace
#1
I've searched and searched and I've yet to come across a clear answer my questions. It may seem redundant, or been answered before. And if so, please point me in the right direction. So here goes:

I have an Samsung Model 46A650 TV attached to my HTPC running Windows 7 and XBMC. I have an ATI Radeon 4350 video card which is connected to the TV via HDMI.

In the Catalyst driver settings, I can choose from several pixel formats, as most everyone is probably familiar with.

My (limited) understanding of colorspace and pixel formats lead me to believe that to match the studio color levels (16-235) of video playback, I need to select the YcbCr 4:4:4 Pixel Format, as this is what I understand a television normally expects to be input.

However, on my television, I can change the label of the HDMI 2 input to "PC", which as I've read tells the television to expect PC level RGB (0-255).

So, in short, my television can display both 0-255 and 16-235 levels. I don't experience black crush or anything like that, because the TV is getting what it's expecting.

And I currently the output set to the RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB), along with having HDMI 2 set to PC Mode. It's crisp and clean, as to be expected, because I assume that it's not doing any processing of the video signal and acting like a PC monitor.

My concern however is that since I have the output set to Full RGB, am I losing color quality/depth in my actual video playback? If I have the YCbCr pixel format selected, the desktop and XBMC don't look as sharp, but I feel like the video looks better. I may be crazy.

And after that long diatribe, here are my questions:

1.) What colorspace/pixel format is XBMC using for video playback, and should I match the output pixel format to that?
2.) Am I getting YCbCr and RGB mixed up? Is one better than the other for video playback?
2.) Am I worrying about something I shouldn't because there's some magical conversion being done behind the scenes (or because I'm a perfectionist?)

Thanks for reading this, and I'd really appreciate any feedback you can give.
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#2
1) In windows XBMC does not change the colorspacing. All blurays and DVDs are limited 16-235. There is no reason to expand the levels if you TV supports 16-235. So I would change your ATI and TV setting.

2) Im guessing YCbCr would be best, but Im not totally sure. Google that one.
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#3
XBMC uses 0-255 levels, set the videocard and television to that as well and you're good.
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#4
bobo1on1 Wrote:XBMC uses 0-255 levels, set the videocard and television to that as well and you're good.

But what if the TV doesn't supports 0-255 levels?
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#5
And is there a differnet between LCD and Plasma Panels ?
I have a Pana Plasma and also not sure wich color space in the ati catalyst
is the best solution !
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#6
bobo1on1 Wrote:XBMC uses 0-255 levels, set the videocard and television to that as well and you're good.

So if your desktop is set to limited 16-236, then XBMC still uses the full range of 0-255. I thought XBMC would use whatever your desktop is set to?

The majority of "TVs" only support limited (16-235). So if that is the case set your card to limited or you will get crushed blacks and loss of detail in your whites. Only ATI CCC has control for the desktop settings which is what XBMC will use. Not the video ones. With Windows 7 and Nvidia I get 16-235 automatically when plugging into my plasma with HDMI.
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#7
bobo1on1 Wrote:XBMC uses 0-255 levels, set the videocard and television to that as well and you're good.

The answer I needed, straight from the source. Thanks bobo1on1!
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#8
Hi

I use Win 7 with a Fusion AMD/ATI 6300
In Windows I use YcbCr 4:4:4 Pixel Format = 16-235
My LG Plasma TV is set to 16-235

Is xbmc now using 16-235 or 0-255?
I thought it's using the windows desktop colorspace?
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#9
or is it like bobo1on1 says? always 0-255
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#10
XBMC always outputs 0-255, that's the standard on pc's, basically everything you see on your desktop is in 0-255 format.
If you set your videocard to 16-235 format, then everything gets converted from 0-255 to 16-235 by the gpu, if you set your tv to use 16-235 levels as well, you will get correct black and white levels.

Picture quality will be a little lower this way because the color resolution will be a little lower, although I doubt you'll see the difference, but if you can use 0-255 levels, you probably should.
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#11
ok! thank you!
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#12
bobo1on1 Wrote:XBMC always outputs 0-255, that's the standard on pc's, basically everything you see on your desktop is in 0-255 format.
If you set your videocard to 16-235 format, then everything gets converted from 0-255 to 16-235 by the gpu, if you set your tv to use 16-235 levels as well, you will get correct black and white levels.

Picture quality will be a little lower this way because the color resolution will be a little lower, although I doubt you'll see the difference, but if you can use 0-255 levels, you probably should.

so this article is wrong or outdated?
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibr...-xvycc-rgb

as far as I can tell, it recommends 16-235 (and using YCbCr) since that's how a bluray and dvd is encoded.. ??
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