(2018-07-24, 06:06)acemt Wrote:

Quote:We understand many players and methods will play UHD HDR titles without actually engaging HDR mode.  Given PDVD v.18 and FAB v.5 are both performing UHD HDR for you and switching HDR mode on, evidently you meet the minimum requirements (at least for PDVD or it wouldn't be working).  Perhaps this is the key to get FAB v.5 working?  Please share which Intel SGX CPU, SGX motherboard, and Intel HD Graphics you are using.  Thanks.

Running Sky-lake i5-3600 chip with Nvidia 960. Gigabyte ga-z170x motherboard. 

(2018-07-24, 17:40)brazen1 Wrote:

(2018-07-24, 06:06)acemt Wrote:

Quote:We understand many players and methods will play UHD HDR titles without actually engaging HDR mode.  Given PDVD v.18 and FAB v.5 are both performing UHD HDR for you and switching HDR mode on, evidently you meet the minimum requirements (at least for PDVD or it wouldn't be working).  Perhaps this is the key to get FAB v.5 working?  Please share which Intel SGX CPU, SGX motherboard, and Intel HD Graphics you are using.  Thanks.

Running Sky-lake i5-3600 chip with Nvidia 960. Gigabyte ga-z170x motherboard.  

 It looks like your CPU and MB do support SGX tech which meets some of PowerDVD requirements for UHD HDR.  Given that PowerDVD states

Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only if a display is powered by Intel Graphics and supports HDCP 2.2. If your computer includes more than one graphics processor, Ultra HD Blu-ray is supported only on the display that is connected and powered by Intel Graphics.  https://www.cyberlink.com/support/product-faq-content.do?id=19881

I don't understand how your GTX 960 could be working unless you are actually using Intel Graphics and perhaps don't realize it?  In the event you are using Intel Graphics (which you must be since it is a PDVD requirement), it doesn't use private API's like nVidia and AMD do.  It uses Windows HDR which requires you to switch it on in W10 settings otherwise you won't have any HDR.  It's called 'HDR and WCG' after the last W10 update. 

I really don't know what the 'Stream HDR' switch in Windows settings does but it's greyed out unless HDR and WCG is enabled.  If it is enabled, and you leave it constantly enabled even when not playing UHD HDR video, you say it has no effect on quality.  On my system, turning on HDR and WCG switch makes the desktop unusable do to distortion but I'm not using Intel Graphics.  I'm using a GTX 960 because I want to use madVR with madVR players and I want to use PDVD and FAB as well.  If I upgraded to SGX hardware and Intel Graphics, madVR would no longer be compatible do to the private API HDR vs Windows HDR.

It fascinates me you are able to leave the 'HDR and WCG' switch always on as well as the 'Stream HDR' switch and have no ill effects when using the desktop.  This confirms my earlier suspicion that DVDFab Player v.3 uses private API's and v.5 abandoned that and now uses Windows HDR requiring the same special hardware and Intel Graphics as PowerDVD.  This explains why neither player works with nVidia or AMD and evidently only works with Intel Graphics for UHD HDR.  Personally, I will continue using DVDFab Player v.3 for HDR menus, PowerDVD v.18 for 3D menus, and MPC for quality main movie only of anything.  I can't give up madVR.  I'm hooked. 

(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

• I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  
• When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  
• Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  
• I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.
  

Quote:One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

(2018-07-25, 18:19)luci5r Wrote:

(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

Mark,

I'm baffled. Maybe brazen1 can add here, as this is as far as my limited knowledge goes. 

• I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  
• When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  
• Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  
• I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.
  

I have no idea how your experience is entirely contrary to the above. I'll test again on my system when I have a chance, but I don't suspect it will be any different.

However, I trust your explanation & context above so clearly it is somehow working very differently for you. Maybe the SGX technology embedded in the CPU & Motherboard behaves differently then we understand - as in - perhaps the HDMI out from CPU is not required if the technology is present! Not Sure!! Very baffled. 

OT: It seems we share more then one vice (and yes, I agree, Lagavulin is unbeatable - a little heavy on the wallet but well worth it!). Would you be kind enough to share your lifelike 4K wallpaper of Taylor Swift ... I just saw her Reputation concert at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena last month, and I have to say, I was blown away! Probably the best show I have seen in my life. You can PM it or I can PM an email. Thanks!!

EDIT:

In order to satisfy my own curiosity, I did some deeper digging and found a few things of note. 

Firstly, I was wrong about DVDFab's requirements for UHD HDR playback taking the same route as PowerDVD. There is a very informative page on DVDFab's website which lists very clearly what is required (and therefore what isn't), and it appears that any Pascal card is sufficient (and required) for HDR, which includes both GTX 900 & 1000 series.

While part of 7th Gen & above Intel GPUs also provide HDR support, they are not required, nor is SGX technology, unlike PowerDVD. 

All of this information can be had here: https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?specifiedType=win&trackID=productpage#d1

Here's some truncated highlights from it:

Code:


System Requirements
★ Windows 10/8.1/8/7/Vista (32/64-bit)
★ Core 2 Quad or above
★ 2GB of RAM
★ A Blu-ray Drive

★ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9 Series (Pascal) or above video card (Required for HDR Mode)
★ HDR compatible TV or display monitor (Required for HDR Mode)
★ Live Internet connection required for product activation (Little network traffic used)


Code:

Detailed Requirements and Settings for HDR and UHD Playback
Hardware Environment
Video cards that support HDR contents playback
From Intel: Intel® UHD Graphics 620 or above (Integrated in Intel® Core™ Generation 8 and part of Generation 7 CPUs).
From NVidia: GeForce GTX 900 series, GTX 1000 series or above.
From AMD: RX450 or above.
Display Port: HDMI2.0a or DP1.3
Software Environment
OS：Windows 10, build 1705 or above
Drivers: upgrade the video card drivers to the latest.
How to check Windows information: Control Panel > System > About
Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color
Tip: this option is not available to Windows 10, with builds under 1705.
Play 5 Settings
To play back 4K HDR contents, please enable the HDR Mode at Settings > Video > HDR Mode
Choose Auto (recommended): if your hardware and display monitor support HDR output, then DVDFab Player 5 will output HDR image, otherwise, it will output SDR image.
Choose HDR -> SDR: DVDFab Player 5 will output SDR image
Earlier Windows 10 builds
Despite earlier Windows 10 builds (under 1705) do not have an HDR option, users still can get HDR support via NVidia video cards, in that case, please also upgrade to the latest NVidia drivers.
UHD Playback
To play back 4K UHD videos, your GPU is required to be capable of H.265 (HEVC) and UHD (4K) hardware decoding. The known GPUs capable of doing this include:
From NVidia: Maxwell GM206 series including GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960 and above, all the Pascal series.
From Intel: 5th generation Intel Core Processors with HD graphics 5500, HD graphics 6000, Iris graphics 6100 and above.
From AMD: GCN 4th generation Polaris Discrete GPU RX 480 / RX 470 / RX 460 and above.
Hardware Requirements for Blu-ray 3D Playback
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 and AMD Radeon HD 6800 series or above, or 2nd generation Intel Core processors or above.
3D Display: HDMI 1.4 enabled 3DTVs，120Hz Frame-sequential 3D LCDs, 3D Polarizer LCDs or 3D Ready HDTVs (DLP).
3D Glasses: Active shutter glasses (NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit), Polarized glasses.


So technically, Mark is correct and HDR should engage without Windows 'HDR & WCG' Switch involved in DVDFab v5, just as it did in v3. I'm not clear why it's not doing so for us but I'll investigate further. If needed, I'll get in touch with DVDFab support. 

One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

 

(2018-07-25, 22:38)brazen1 Wrote:

(2018-07-25, 18:19)luci5r Wrote:

(2018-07-25, 15:05)acemt Wrote: First off Lagavulin is the best, IMHO.

Secondly, not sure why it's working, but it is. You guys have a better understanding of API's and switches, etc., but I am fairly computer savvy and can usually get stuff to work.

I can confirm that I am running the 960 hdmi out to the tv. Everything is running with Nvidia settings. Latest drivers. I doubt if I am the only person able to leave those switches, in windows, on all the time, and NO, it does not put on the HDR flag in Powerdvd or DVDFab unless it is an HDR .mkv. My picture of Taylor Swift wallpaper is almost lifelike at 4k, which the wallpaper is.

Mark,

I'm baffled. Maybe brazen1 can add here, as this is as far as my limited knowledge goes. 

• I'm not clear how GTX 960 is playing HDR correctly in PowerDVD.
  
• When I switch my 'HDR & WCG' button On in Windows --> Settings --> Display, the HDR flag stays On in my Samsung UHD HDR set (UN65MU7000), whether it's the desktop or any non-HDR content on screen. It never goes Off.
  
• Both PowerDVD & DVDFab keep the HDR flag On if the Windows 'HDR & WCG' switch is On, irrespective of HDR or Non-HDR content.
  
• I have scoured the Internet and while I can't claim that no one can leave that switch On, I personally have not come across one person who hasn't the same complain as myself and anyone else I know about leaving that switch On, and therefore do not / can not, leave that switch On.
  

I have no idea how your experience is entirely contrary to the above. I'll test again on my system when I have a chance, but I don't suspect it will be any different.

However, I trust your explanation & context above so clearly it is somehow working very differently for you. Maybe the SGX technology embedded in the CPU & Motherboard behaves differently then we understand - as in - perhaps the HDMI out from CPU is not required if the technology is present! Not Sure!! Very baffled. 

OT: It seems we share more then one vice (and yes, I agree, Lagavulin is unbeatable - a little heavy on the wallet but well worth it!). Would you be kind enough to share your lifelike 4K wallpaper of Taylor Swift ... I just saw her Reputation concert at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena last month, and I have to say, I was blown away! Probably the best show I have seen in my life. You can PM it or I can PM an email. Thanks!!

EDIT:

In order to satisfy my own curiosity, I did some deeper digging and found a few things of note. 

Firstly, I was wrong about DVDFab's requirements for UHD HDR playback taking the same route as PowerDVD. There is a very informative page on DVDFab's website which lists very clearly what is required (and therefore what isn't), and it appears that any Pascal card is sufficient (and required) for HDR, which includes both GTX 900 & 1000 series.

While part of 7th Gen & above Intel GPUs also provide HDR support, they are not required, nor is SGX technology, unlike PowerDVD. 

All of this information can be had here: https://www.dvdfab.cn/media-player.htm?specifiedType=win&trackID=productpage#d1

Here's some truncated highlights from it:

Code:


System Requirements
★ Windows 10/8.1/8/7/Vista (32/64-bit)
★ Core 2 Quad or above
★ 2GB of RAM
★ A Blu-ray Drive

★ NVIDIA GeForce GTX 9 Series (Pascal) or above video card (Required for HDR Mode)
★ HDR compatible TV or display monitor (Required for HDR Mode)
★ Live Internet connection required for product activation (Little network traffic used)


Code:

Detailed Requirements and Settings for HDR and UHD Playback
Hardware Environment
Video cards that support HDR contents playback
From Intel: Intel® UHD Graphics 620 or above (Integrated in Intel® Core™ Generation 8 and part of Generation 7 CPUs).
From NVidia: GeForce GTX 900 series, GTX 1000 series or above.
From AMD: RX450 or above.
Display Port: HDMI2.0a or DP1.3
Software Environment
OS：Windows 10, build 1705 or above
Drivers: upgrade the video card drivers to the latest.
How to check Windows information: Control Panel > System > About
Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color
Tip: this option is not available to Windows 10, with builds under 1705.
Play 5 Settings
To play back 4K HDR contents, please enable the HDR Mode at Settings > Video > HDR Mode
Choose Auto (recommended): if your hardware and display monitor support HDR output, then DVDFab Player 5 will output HDR image, otherwise, it will output SDR image.
Choose HDR -> SDR: DVDFab Player 5 will output SDR image
Earlier Windows 10 builds
Despite earlier Windows 10 builds (under 1705) do not have an HDR option, users still can get HDR support via NVidia video cards, in that case, please also upgrade to the latest NVidia drivers.
UHD Playback
To play back 4K UHD videos, your GPU is required to be capable of H.265 (HEVC) and UHD (4K) hardware decoding. The known GPUs capable of doing this include:
From NVidia: Maxwell GM206 series including GeForce GTX 750 SE, GTX 950, GTX 960 and above, all the Pascal series.
From Intel: 5th generation Intel Core Processors with HD graphics 5500, HD graphics 6000, Iris graphics 6100 and above.
From AMD: GCN 4th generation Polaris Discrete GPU RX 480 / RX 470 / RX 460 and above.
Hardware Requirements for Blu-ray 3D Playback
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 and AMD Radeon HD 6800 series or above, or 2nd generation Intel Core processors or above.
3D Display: HDMI 1.4 enabled 3DTVs，120Hz Frame-sequential 3D LCDs, 3D Polarizer LCDs or 3D Ready HDTVs (DLP).
3D Glasses: Active shutter glasses (NVIDIA 3D Vision Kit), Polarized glasses.


So technically, Mark is correct and HDR should engage without Windows 'HDR & WCG' Switch involved in DVDFab v5, just as it did in v3. I'm not clear why it's not doing so for us but I'll investigate further. If needed, I'll get in touch with DVDFab support. 

One thing of Interest I noted while going through DVDFab Media Player page was full 3D Blu-ray support, and ISO as well as Folder Structure playback for both Blu-ray & 4K UHD Blu-ray. If all of this works, this player could make PowerDVD obsolete as it doesn't seem to have the hardware requirements PowerDVD does. But it's all dependent on everything working appropriately, which requires more testing!

 

Read the "Requirements" again:

Required Settings
OS Settings
Enable HDR option: Control Panel > System > Display > HDR and advanced color

'HDR and advanced color' & 'HDR & WCG' are the same switch.  MS just changed the name after the W10 v.1803 update.  

(2018-07-26, 03:05)brazen1 Wrote: One thing I am taking away from this conversation is a user is adamant leaving the Windows HDR switch enabled all the time has no ill affects on any GUI's or Windows Desktop usage.  That to me I find mind boggling but chalk it up that differences in hardware must matter even though we use the identical GPU.  Also don't understand the same user is decoding and rendering HDR using PDVD 18 while not meeting PDVD's requirements?

(2018-07-26, 03:05)brazen1 Wrote: I'm not really sure what we're trying to discover here

(2018-01-26, 00:41)luci5r Wrote: So I finally got a chance this week to sit down and finagle with the various options & propositions to do with getting UHD HDR MKV playback to work on my GT 1030 / i5-2600K machine with Kodi. 

Ultimately, in a nut shell, the following is what I was able to achieve.

#1
Windows HDR --> OFF
Under LAV Video Configuration -> Hardware Acceleration
If I set "Hardware Decoder to use" to "DXVA2 (Native)"
This method allows LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE to playback UHD HDR MKV flawlessly! No skipping. No lag. No frame rate or choppy playback issues. Playback is absolutely smooth. 
HOWEVER -- The PQ is just not that great! Colors are no different then watching a non-UHD, non-HDR media. 

#2
Windows HDR --> OFF
Under LAV Video Configuration -> Hardware Acceleration
If I set "Hardware Decoder to use" to "DXVA2 (Copy-Back)"
This method allows LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE to playback UHD HDR MKV with choppy playback issues. Playback is jerky. It's not as bad as I originally encountered. This is more like when you try to play 24p video on a 60Hz refresh rate - maybe a little more jerk then that.   
HOWEVER -- The PQ is phenomenal! Colors are great! I can tell it's very different then non-HDR media. 

For both above tests,
"Trade quality for performance" all boxes were checked;
almost all other options were either the "default" MadVR or the ones suggested by brazen1 in post #205. 
Chroma upscaling was Cubic
Image downscaling was Cubic
Image upscaling was Lanczos

I tried some other settings randomly but they only made playback worse. 

Lastly,

#3
Windows HDR --> ON
Playback UHD HDR MKV in PowerDVD 17
Absolutely flawless media playback - Smooth - No choppiness/jerk.
Absolutely phenomenal PQ. Superb colors. I can tell HDR is working properly. 

The only drawback of this issue is, I have to turn HDR in Windows Display Settings On & Off manually before & after media playback. 

----------

If I had to pick a method to use on my machine today, I would most certainly go with method #3. Despite having to turn HDR On & Off, as I get absolutely flawless media playback with superb PQ & Colors. 

Ideally, I would love if method #2 could work - if I could somehow get rid of the choppiness and jerk in motion. Since no manual HDR On/Off intervention is required. 

I don't seem to quite understand why LAV/MadVR/MPC-BE cannot play back the same media on the same machine and produce the exact same picture quality & colors --- that PowerDVD can? In other words, why does GT 1030 fail to produce the exact same results in MPC-BE/MadVR, but produces brilliant results in PowerDVD? I've compared the PQ between the DXVA2 (Copy-Back) method & PowerDVD method and neither of the two is superior - they are pretty equal. So I have to relent that GT 1030 is fully capable of UHD HDR MKV playback. 

Really wish I could get method #2 to work. But for now, I'll stick with method #3 unless I can figure out otherwise. 

Thanks.

• what external player do you use for HDR UHD mkv's in kodi?
  When i have understand the discussions right: DVDFAB 3, right?
  
  
• Does PCF work correctly now in v18a3 64bit windows build?
  

(2018-08-02, 00:14)Wanilton Wrote: @luci5r Kodi Leia have now one option "try10bitoutpit" via advancedsettings.xml for send 10 bits to display, it´s the first step for have UHD HDR playback using internal player. Exist one second adjust relationed, but I don´t have precise idea how work (allowdiscretedecoder).

Code:

<advancedsettings>     
<video>  
  <allowdiscretedecoder>false</allowdiscretedecoder>
 </video>
  <try10bitoutput>true</try10bitoutput>    
</advancedsettings>

About try10bitoutput = added 10bit output if supported. Allow output 10bit videos without converting them to 8bit.
About allowdiscretedecoder = added the possibility to use a separate device for decoding (disabled by default). it allows avoiding lockups of device's context.  

pOpY Wrote:Hey @luci5r,

i have a similar hardware, older i3 and a 1030. Did bought the 1030 to get 4k hdr playback on my philips 65PSU8102 TV.
Sadly, running into the same issues, that the MPC/LAV/MADVR doesnt work! Regardless what i have tried in the settings.
Dont want to spend more money on this. So i am looking for a solution for my current hardware....

So here are my questions to you, because you are have worked out the best solutions for this hardware on the past pages:
what external player do you use for HDR UHD mkv's in kodi?
When i have understand the discussions right: DVDFAB 3, right?

Does PCF work correctly now in v18a3 64bit windows build?
Thanks a lot
pOpY

Warner306 Wrote:It was simple for someone else.

Reset madVR to its default settings, configure your device and don’t change anything else. Set the CPU and GPU queues to 8 and the present queue to 6. Use D3D11 Automatic hardware decoding. Play a 4K video. If that doesn’t work, then something is at fault.