[Captainobvvious]

Don't sites like YouTube and IceFilms already do this?

You play the video and the buffer continues to fill in the tracking bar as you watch it...

I know nothing about coding but this looks like a petty argument here... We should be able to watch a movie and have it continue to buffer while we haev a faster connection so that if it fluctuates we don't hit the end of the buffer.

[barberio]

And yet... Buffered AirPlay over wifi seems to work quite fine on the AppleTV.

Isn't it a little telling when Apple allow the user to decide if they'll be happy with buffer delay, but XBMC devs decide that the user can't make that choice?

[barberio]

IIRC, there's already a buffer for fluctuation speeds at the OS level.

iirc, xbmc connects using it's own network FS libraries, not the operating system's. So the OS file system cache, where the special network caching magic usually happens, doesn't get touched for network files.

[TugboatBill]

The solution is simple. If you want it, code it. This is a volunteer project.

[barberio]

The solution is simple. If you want it, code it. This is a volunteer project.

You understand that the "Code it yourself" response is one of the things the Project is trying to move away from in being user-focused? It's why there's a feature suggestion forum at all.

[atari800]

Just tossing this in for clarity---
If on wifi, it takes 30 minutes to copy a 20 minute movie - buffering is pointless - too slow (unless you buffer entire movie)
If it takes 5 minutes to copy a movie without interruption (steady flow), buffering is pointless (kinda)
but...
If it takes 15 minutes to copy -
-----5 min steady flow @ 30mbit
-----1 min inconsistant flow between 1-10 mbit (buffering at this point, movie stopped)
-----5 min steady flow @ 30mbit
-----1 min inconsistant flow between 1-10 mbit (buffering at this point, movie stopped)
-----3 min steady flow @ 30mbit
....here a read-ahead buffer would be great

A better "visual" is...have you ever using IMGBURN cd burning software?
You see 2 buffers fluctuating on the screen there...
The DVD writer has a buffer in it, but gets depleted quickly. The OS provides a small buffer that is "always charged" and feeding the DVD buffer so there is no delay in getting data to write
The small buffer is feed by the bigger buffer which is huge.
With this setup, you can kick off a few disk intensive apps that are prevent IMGBURN from reading from the hard drive, but thats ok because the buffers have enough info to keep that dvd burner writing until IMGBURN can read more data again.

Now before any dev tells me to get coding - I cant. This was only put out to help others understand slow wi-fi vs a fast but inconsistent connection vs a fast (issue free) connection

[jegjeg]

I would just like to add that I will appreciate it alot if some buffering setting will be added. I play files across internet using Hamachi, this works well except for some scenes where the bitrate peaks over my internet connection. The average bitrate of the movie is below my connection speed, but peaks are above. If one would let the player build up a buffer of 10-30 second, I think it would resolve my problem.

[mips]

I would also like to see this functionality implemented, as it would be useful if:
1) Bandwidth is inconsistent, but average throughput is sufficient
2) Bandwidth is sufficient most of the time, except for some higher bitrate action sequences
3) Bandwidth is insufficient, but the video can be watched while the file is downloading

I for one like to stream 1080p over the Internet, as I prefer to have my content stored on a personal server in a data centre so that I can access it from multiple locations, and short of having my own strands of fiber pulled to my home, I won't be able to use gigabit. So, 1) and 2) would both apply to my use case. I do appreciate however that it will require somebody to contribute their development time, and I would like to thank in advance whoever takes on this task.

Yes, but the majority of discussion has not been about a fluctuating network. Buffers are for fluctuating networks, not slow networks.

Considering the op began the thread with:

the fundamental problem, which is: network access could be flakey

and that you were the 2nd person to post, it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the majority of posts are about slow networks, when it's people like you who have operated on false assumptions and subverted the original intent of the op.

I won't say smarter or cooler. I will say more experienced with more expertise. I was on a TCP/IP Performance and Design Analysis Team for one of the world's largest IT companies. That does, in fact, make me an expert.

Good for you. What role did you serve on the team? Based on your posts in this thread, it would appear that it was neither requirements gathering nor architecture.

And please, try not to forget, No matter how smart and cool you think you are, there is always a room full of people who are smarter and cooler. So play nice

Very wise words. Unfortunately, egos inevitably get in the way and not everyone has the humility to heed them.

Just tossing this in for clarity---
If on wifi, it takes 30 minutes to copy a 20 minute movie - buffering is pointless - too slow (unless you buffer entire movie)

It's still not pointless; you could start watching the movie after waiting only 10 minutes instead of 30 as per 3) above.

Here's an interim workaround for anyone who stands to benefit from increased caching; setup an instance of a proxy cacher like squid, nginx, or varnish, and request the file through it using HTTP. This way, the entire file will get downloaded into a local file cache but you will still be able to stream the file in the interim just using xbmc's buffer.

[jegjeg]

http://trac.xbmc.org/ticket/10772

Is this something that can resolve this?

[Nimo]

at first look what datarate is in hd-movies then buy network devices... what do you think about power lan? up to 1gbit in best case. i use an standart pc with raid 5 with win7 as nas. over 1gbit no prob and with 11n (300mbit) also no prob. wlan goes over 2,4ghz and through a single house. it works well. next year i must use whdi and i hope this wouldnt be the worst case but whith good hardware you dont need an upgrade of buffering. i like the klick-and-whatch feature.

edit: take the network data eg 300mbit or 1gbit and devide through 8 then you get max transferrate - 37,5MB/s and 125MB/s. a 100mbit system reaches 12,5MB/s. this should be enough for direkt access
edit2: a full blu-ray have a max rate of 53,95 Mbit/s so you see just 10mbit isnt enough, wlan lower 11n would be critical because windows reserve 20% bandwith but with registry entries you can set it to 0%

[jegjeg]

Nimo,
I agree to most of what you are saying. in your own house you can argue that it is better to invest in proper equipment, or just install a cheap 100mb ethernet cable instead of bothering with wifi. But if there is no possibility to increase the stability/bandwith of the connection, one has a problem. And when increasing buffer size is a solution, I hope exactly that will be implemented.

My situation is that I have set up a htpc at my sister so that she can view all my movies and TV shows. This is 100+ miles away, so I am using logmein hamachi to create a "local network" across the internett. They have a internet connection of 25mb/25mb. Effective is closer to 20mb per sec. This is enough for most movies, but action scenes in 1080p movies may peak over this. If the buffer was larger, the whole movie would play smooth. As long as average bitrate of movie is below connection speed, it shall work.

"Click and play at once" can still work regardless of buffer size, if one let the buffer fill while playing, that will no be a problem. (If the movie starts with a bitrate peak, it will be a problem though).

VLC can set the buffer manually, it waits until the buffer is full with playing though.. This works with hamachi.

I think more and more are thinking of connecting to a server at home while they are on the move. Smart phones, tablets, laptops makes this easy. So this could be a problem for more and more users.

[Nimo]

hamachi is a good idea but i think ftp acces would be better because direct acces. i dont like 3rd party tools i dont know how ftp works with xbmc and buffering. but 20mb/s should be enough for sharing videos.
i found in wiki an network article for advancedsettings.xml
http://wiki.xbmc.org/index.php?title=Use...network.3E

<network>
<cachemembuffersize>5242880</cachemembuffersize> <!-- number of bytes used for buffering streams ahead in memory
XBMC will not buffer ahead more than this. WARNING: for the bytes set here, XBMC will consume 3x the amount of RAM -->
</network>

when it would work it could help

[jegjeg]

20mbit is sadly not enough for 1080p movies, they have peaks up to 30mbit..

It might be a solution to use something else than hamachi as you say. I have tried ftp server with filezilla or what it is called. But it was not a success with XBMC. It had some difficulty browsing and such, I can recall to have read that ftp is not the best library solution media for xbmc. I would appreciate is someone has another suggestion how to share media across internett though, so that xbmc library works well, and with a larger buffer.

What i like so much about hamachi, is that it everything works just as if the computers were on the same local network. This makes everything so easy in windows. UPNP sharing, browsing other computers, remote desktop to other computers, remote control xbmc, etc. I just love it

Thanks for the suggestion in the advancedsettings.xml. But as you say it is not working at the moment I think the option was removed when xbmc was ported from xbox..

[jegjeg]

I would just like to add that it does not need to be storing the buffer in a local "file". For my problem it is more than enough to store the buffer in RAM.

[Nimo]

i tested a little bit with mkv´s and get some buferring messages. the problem was the virusscanner. cpu usage increases nearly 100% then lowering to 10%. with disabled scanner no probs and seeking is easy. i make an exception for smb on each side and it works. so my buffering problems are solved.