[Guardian Hope]

The Road to Danvers and Krypton

a little feedback from the community wouldn't hurt:

I don't mean to be rude, so please don't take this the wrong way. Consider this just constructive criticism.

After reading your post above regarding this skin and it's release, I'm sort of left scratching my head... And just plain confused.

In the single post above you mention: dormer, danvers, summer 2016, preview availability, general availability, seasonal release, anniversary edition... All this, tucked away in a sub section of a forum labelled as a "mod" for a skin that's development has ceased for months.

Perhaps a new forum section for this skin? It doesn't appear to be much of a "mod" but more of a skin of its own.

I mean, most skins just have a point release version, or a simple "Jarvis beta" or "krypton beta" which is pushed to kodi repo when stable. this makes sense and is pretty obvious and simple.

In regards to this skin, my feedback: keep it simple.

I don't mean to be discouraging in any way, it's great to have a lot of skins to choose from so
Keep skinning away!

Cheers,
Loggio.

Absolutely understand! Since the easier part is to address the forum section I will do that first. I actually didn't know the "original" Arctic Zephyr is no longer being developed and that is surprising news to me at least. Kodi has a strange policy regarding what and what doesn't get put into the repositories and thus get their own forum sections. Ideally, I believe this policy is intended to keep the forums "clean" but as you aptly noted, based on what you said this modification is tucked in a sub-forum for a skin no longer actively developed for and has by its own right become a skin of its own standing even if it is clearly Arctic Zephyr in origin.

A Team Kodi member would have to comment on that subject matter. It is virtually uncharted territory. The skin is however hosted in the Emby Repository - standing on its own.

I do apologize for the confusion regarding all the update lingo; it's just a pretty standard thing in an entirely different area which is being applied to this skin as well. Happy to explain it:

• Summer 2016 Update - The "seasonal update" that occurs to the skin, in this case the one to be released this Summer. An example of a previous one is the "Spring 2016 Update" which everyone is using and a future one would be the "Autumn 2016 Update" which will be released with Krypton;
  
• Dormer - The branch name for the Jarvis version of Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes (3.x.xx)
  
• Danvers - The branch name for the Krypton version of Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes (4.x.xx)
  [*]Preview Availability - Typically, AZ:FA is updated about once every three to four months (the change of the seasons basically). Preview Availability is like an Alpha and a Beta rolled into one. It's a version of the skin that doesn't abide by "seasonal updates" and will be consistently updated up to the release of the version of Kodi it's intended for. It's rough around the edges and meant for testing.
  
• General Availability - The "current release" version of this skin that is actively supported. It's obviously passed its Alpha and Beta stages and is now stable enough to run and be seasonally updated. The Danvers branch will transition to this upon Kodi 17's release. The Dormer branch is currently in this state.
  
• Anniversary Edition - This is the official name of the next version of Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes as it will be released around the time of the first anniversary of the AZ:FA project. It has the same meaning as "Danvers."
  

This is turning into a unique thread...

I gotta agree with the post above about all the naming things being thrown around. Seems like a confusing way to present updates, IMHO simple is 9 times out of 10 the way to go.

Why the need to change the folder name after altering the addon id to include danvers? That shouldn't mean you need the folder name to match the skin id. At least I cannot think of a reason one would need to do that.

On second thought, why even alter the id in the first place as now auto updates from a repo won't ever happen when anyone updates to a newer Kodi version.

I am not criticizing just curious as to why make that decision

When downloading from GitHub, you always had to change the name of the internal folder in the zip because GitHub appends additional information. This is a limitation of the Skin Helper Service. The Skin Helper Service expects the Addon ID to match the name of the internal folder so if the Addon ID is "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes" it can't have the folder within the zip named "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes-master." This only effects the GitHub Release Channel and always has been true. So this means that since the next version has "danvers" in it, the folder inside the zip file also needs to be named appropriately.

Now the thought to change the Addon ID for Krypton was a long and hard choice to make but it was done to prevent the mixing of the two versions. This skin also happens to be hosted in the Emby Repo and as such there is a "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes" and there can't be another one to use that Addon ID; otherwise Jarvis would get the same version and thus Jarvis users would not have a working skin. So, to rectify that a new Addon ID was needed and in this case it's "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes.danvers" which is sort of fitting given that Kodi 17 is named Krypton.

So really, it comes down to technological limitations of supporting two versions concurrently in the same repository.

Hope this helps

[loggio]

Ok...
But why not just call the skin Arctic Zephyr: from ashes (Jarvis) and (krypton)
Just like what marcelveldt does with Titan skin betas in the repository that's hosting your skin.
In the kodi repo, the stable release of titan is simply called titan.

Certainly eliminates confusion. I have no idea what dormer or danvers mean... They both start with "d" and in the emby repo, the descriptions of the skin versions are exactly the same, there's nothing telling me " download this for Jarvis" "download this for krypton" etc...


Just to clarify, I'm not saying Arctic zephyr is dead, simply that there's been no updates now for about 3 months... Nor has there been any appearance from jurialmonkey in this time either... So I'm only assuming this skin has been shelved, until such time there's been an official announcement stating otherwise of course.

Cheers,
Loggio.

[mikeSiLVO]

When downloading from GitHub, you always had to change the name of the internal folder in the zip because GitHub appends additional information. This is a limitation of the Skin Helper Service. The Skin Helper Service expects the Addon ID to match the name of the internal folder so if the Addon ID is "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes" it can't have the folder within the zip named "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes-master." This only effects the GitHub Release Channel and always has been true. So this means that since the next version has "danvers" in it, the folder inside the zip file also needs to be named appropriately.

Now the thought to change the Addon ID for Krypton was a long and hard choice to make but it was done to prevent the mixing of the two versions. This skin also happens to be hosted in the Emby Repo and as such there is a "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes" and there can't be another one to use that Addon ID; otherwise Jarvis would get the same version and thus Jarvis users would not have a working skin. So, to rectify that a new Addon ID was needed and in this case it's "skin.arctic.zephyr.fromashes.danvers" which is sort of fitting given that Kodi 17 is named Krypton.

So really, it comes down to technological limitations of supporting two versions concurrently in the same repository.

Hope this helps

Now I am even more curious... What feature of the skin.helper script do you use that requires the addon id to match the skin folder? I get the recommendation to change the name as I say the same since it simplifies user error with having the same skin in multiple folders.

Here comes the confusion part... Why does the emby repo stable or beta not separate the content of the repo by kodi version? I do not know much about emby so I could be missing something but it looks like emby just manages the library for kodi therefore the repo should work just like any other repository could

I have one repo for my skin that supports helix, isengard, jarvis, and soon krypton all while using the same addon id.

[Guardian Hope]

Ok...
But why not just call the skin Arctic Zephyr: from ashes (Jarvis) and (krypton)
Just like what marcelveldt does with Titan skin betas in the repository that's hosting your skin.
In the kodi repo, the stable release of titan is simply called titan.

Certainly eliminates confusion. I have no idea what dormer or danvers mean... They both start with "d" and in the emby repo, the descriptions of the skin versions are exactly the same, there's nothing telling me " download this for Jarvis" "download this for krypton" etc...


Just to clarify, I'm not saying Arctic zephyr is dead, simply that there's been no updates now for about 3 months... Nor has there been any appearance from jurialmonkey in this time either... So I'm only assuming this skin has been shelved, until such time there's been an official announcement stating otherwise of course.

Cheers,
Loggio.

You're literally comparing oranges and apples. At the end of the day, when Krypton is released, Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes is going to drop its (DANVERS PREVIEW) moniker from the name. It has been quite the opposite of what you have said, virtually everyone seemingly knows (perhaps through good communication) that Danvers is intended for Krypton only. You don't label "preview" on something that is the currently generally available release.

On the other hand, several other skins are having issues with users downloading the Krypton preview versions rather than the Jarvis counterparts that they required all because they kept the same name.

It's also really, really hard to miss the reference of Danvers to Krypton if you have watched CBS at least once last year or early this year: http://supergirl.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_Danvers

As for Dormer, it was named on a whim and really had no relation to the name 'Jarvis' although Game of Thrones fans (among others) probably fairly easily got the reference: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Natalie_Dormer

Essentially, there are so many giveaways regarding the two versions it's actually hard to miss. A skin doesn't bump its major version number (3 -> 4) in the middle of a normal release; it's not labeled as "PREVIEW," and yes, the updated descriptions are just further telling you that one is meant for one and the other meant for the other.

Now I am even more curious... What feature of the skin.helper script do you use that requires the addon id to match the skin folder? I get the recommendation to change the name as I say the same since it simplifies user error with having the same skin in multiple folders.

Here comes the confusion part... Why does the emby repo stable or beta not separate the content of the repo by kodi version? I do not know much about emby so I could be missing something but it looks like emby just manages the library for kodi therefore the repo should work just like any other repository could

I have one repo for my skin that supports helix, isengard, jarvis, and soon krypton all while using the same addon id.

This is actually a basic requirement of the Skin Helper Service according to @marcelveldt when we last spoke. When users were having an installation problem with this skin he quickly identified the issues: the folder name and the addon name don't match so the Skin Helper Service which expects it to match was failing to let the skin install. The release that fixed that is somewhere in these 20 pages. It's a limitation of the toolset rather than the skin itself.

As for the Emby Repo, well, that tends to be a bit more complicated. I personally don't run the Emby Repo though I can get the name of who does and you can ask him. Now Emby Server, not to be confused with the Emby Repo, does manage libraries across a multitude of platforms and to get Emby Server working with Kodi requires a plugin from the Emby Repo. However, Emby Server does far more than manage libraries - especially compared to the generic Kodi experience. This is however one of its functions.

[loggio]

Ok...
But why not just call the skin Arctic Zephyr: from ashes (Jarvis) and (krypton)
Just like what marcelveldt does with Titan skin betas in the repository that's hosting your skin.
In the kodi repo, the stable release of titan is simply called titan.

Certainly eliminates confusion. I have no idea what dormer or danvers mean... They both start with "d" and in the emby repo, the descriptions of the skin versions are exactly the same, there's nothing telling me " download this for Jarvis" "download this for krypton" etc...


Just to clarify, I'm not saying Arctic zephyr is dead, simply that there's been no updates now for about 3 months... Nor has there been any appearance from jurialmonkey in this time either... So I'm only assuming this skin has been shelved, until such time there's been an official announcement stating otherwise of course.

Cheers,
Loggio.

You're literally comparing oranges and apples. At the end of the day, when Krypton is released, Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes is going to drop its (DANVERS PREVIEW) moniker from the name. It has been quite the opposite of what you have said, virtually everyone seemingly knows (perhaps through good communication) that Danvers is intended for Krypton only. You don't label "preview" on something that is the currently generally available release.

On the other hand, several other skins are having issues with users downloading the Krypton preview versions rather than the Jarvis counterparts that they required all because they kept the same name.

It's also really, really hard to miss the reference of Danvers to Krypton if you have watched CBS at least once last year or early this year: http://supergirl.wikia.com/wiki/Kara_Danvers

As for Dormer, it was named on a whim and really had no relation to the name 'Jarvis' although Game of Thrones fans (among others) probably fairly easily got the reference: http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Natalie_Dormer

Essentially, there are so many giveaways regarding the two versions it's actually hard to miss. A skin doesn't bump its major version number (3 -> 4) in the middle of a normal release; it's not labeled as "PREVIEW," and yes, the updated descriptions are just further telling you that one is meant for one and the other meant for the other.

It is essentially the same thing but for someone like myself who's never seen an episode of game of thrones or supergirl and has very little interest every doing so, is certainly never going to make that connection.

But i have to say, this is so trivial that i've taken 10 steps back from being confused... I'm now just lost.
Generally, If a skin has BETA releases and is posted on a repository and has different versions intended for certain releases of kodi, i'd expect to find (and i'm sure i'm in a majority) "skin name - 1.0 Jarvis" , "skin name - 2.0 - Krypton" etc...

When a skin is released and pushed to stable, you generally find it on kodi's official repo...

After all said and done, each to their own. Whatever works for you i guess.

I still haven't been able to test this skin though. when i was using Jarvis, i downloaded this from the Emby repo and it never worked...
and now that i'm on Krypton nightlies i download the "danvers preview" from the emby repo after selecting that skin from the interface settings, kodi just reverts back to Estuary.


Anyways, this is drifting far off course. I appreciate your response and wish you all the best with this skin.

Cheers,
Loggio.

[Guardian Hope]

It is essentially the same thing but for someone like myself who's never seen an episode of game of thrones or supergirl and has very little interest every doing so, is certainly never going to make that connection.

But i have to say, this is so trivial that i've taken 10 steps back from being confused... I'm now just lost.
Generally, If a skin has BETA releases and is posted on a repository and has different versions intended for certain releases of kodi, i'd expect to find (and i'm sure i'm in a majority) "skin name - 1.0 Jarvis" , "skin name - 2.0 - Krypton" etc...

We're just going in circles here now and that's the problem here. You prefer it named one way and it's named another. However, to use your example, Titan is labeled as Titan, Titan BETA, Titan BETA for Krypton when I last checked the Emby repository. How is that any less confusing to you when there are two betas? No skin release has the Kodi version, as far as I have seen, in its name except for some that are in beta. No one does "skin name - 1.0 Jarvis," etc.

When you hover over the skin it will tell you what version it is and provide a description. Arctic Zephyr: From Ashes has a version number of 3.x.xx for Jarvis and 4.x.xx for Krypton. Not only that, it literally has "preview" in the name.

Others are having issues where people are downloading the wrong version. Titan and this skin are some of the few that aren't.

When a skin is released and pushed to stable, you generally find it on kodi's official repo...

Except skin mods aren't pushed to Kodi's official repository. They are hosted depending on what resources the author has. In this case, the Emby Repo, a CDN, and on GitHub.

After all said and done, each to their own. Whatever works for you i guess.

Fair enough...

I still haven't been able to test this skin though. when i was using Jarvis, i downloaded this from the Emby repo and it never worked...
and now that i'm on Krypton nightlies i download the "danvers preview" from the emby repo after selecting that skin from the interface settings, kodi just reverts back to Estuary.


Anyways, this is drifting far off course. I appreciate your response and wish you all the best with this skin.

Cheers,
Loggio.

I can't help you with Jarvis because there are no longer any known installation issues with Jarvis so as long as you followed the installation instructions the Emby Repo should take care of you just fine. You can alternatively just download the zip and extract it to %AppData%\Kodi\addons and won't have to worry about it again. If you are the one I think you are, yours was trying to install to C:\Program Files (x86)\Kodi\addons which it shouldn't be doing and more of a configuration problem on your end.

Also, if you read a little passed the first Krypton release you'll notice that it was stated multiple times that it won't be until this upcoming release that it will actually run on Krypton. This is because it's missing DialogConfirm.xml.

It sounds more and more like you are just confused and are trying to frame that confusion as the audience being confused; the latter actually not being the case.

While I am happy to help alleviate your confusion it seems, as you have said, your posts have drifted well off any original point you were trying to make.

[loggio]

I seriously don't know how else to put it....
Your skin is hosted on a BETA ADDONS repository.... Note:BETA

1.The fact that both versions of your skin are on a BETA Repo, I can only assume both versions are exactly that...BETA

2.In what way does 'danvers preview' relate to krypton in an obvious way according to the image above? It doesn't unless I'm aware of some trivial reference to super girl... I guess you just assume everyone is?

3.Nowhere in the highlighted description does 3.2.12 mention jarvis at all. Nor does the "danvers preview" mention that it's specifically a krypton preview. it hurts my head just saying that... But you're trying to spin it as if it's obvious, and I'm telling you blatantly that it's not.

4.All titan betas are labled appropriately, you'd have to be a fool to download the wrong version.

5. If you post a stable release on a BETA repository, you'd probably want to make it pretty Damn obvious in its description that's it's a stable release and state exactly what version of kodi it's meant for.

I really don't know how else to explain this... No matter how you try and spin your argument, your releases are confusing.

Which brings me back to my main point of criticism:
Keep it simple

That's all. A picture tells a thousand words.

[Guardian Hope]

I seriously don't know how else to put it....
Your skin is hosted on a BETA ADDONS repository.... Note:BETA

1.The fact that both versions of your skin are on a BETA Repo, I can any assume both versions are exactly that...BETA

2.In what way does 'danvers preview' relate to krypton in an obvious way according to the image above? It doesn't unless I'm aware of some trivial reference to super girl... I guess you just assume everyone is?

3.Nowhere in the highlighted description does 3.2.12 mention jarvis at all. No does the "danvers preview" mention that it's specifically a krypton preview. it hurts my head just saying that... But you're trying to spin it as if it's obvious, and I'm telling you blatantly that it's not.

4.All titan betas are labled appropriately, you'd have to be a fool to download the wrong version.

5. If you post a stable release on a BETA repository, you'd probably want to make it pretty Damn obvious that's it's a stable release and exactly what version of kodi it's meant for.

I really don't know how else to explain this... No matter how you try and spin your argument, your releases are confusing.

Which brings me back to my main point of criticism:
Keep it simple

That's all. A picture tells a thousand words.

I literally don't know how to respond to you because you are acting like you are 100% oblivious. Read the first post whether here or on the Emby forums and you'll see it very boldly stated and that's one among many examples of the separation of the two trees.

Rather than try to highlight your points with capital letters (I don't know about you but I really don't like when people do that) you should know why it's in the Beta Repository. The Emby Beta Repository has been exclusively used for both Jarvis and now Krypton addons concurrently. I imagine this will change in time. I believe this has also been highlighted a few times on both the Emby and Kodi forums.

So in reference to your points:

1) Read above

2) Read above, read the first post on this or the Emby forums, read literally most of the recent posts, and grab a hint at "Preview" and the significant version bump from 3 to 4. Read the thread title too.

3) I didn't say 3.2.12 stated it but instead said it was added to the addon description: https://github.com/NortheBridge/skin.arc.../addon.xml - you know, because the next 4.x release is really the first working Krypton release.

4) This has not always been the case. There have been "Titan," "Titan BETA," "Titan Beta for X," etc. This was apparent during the Jarvis transition.

5) Read the first part of this. Then return here. Do you think the Arctic Zephyr From Ashes Audio Suite is a "beta" too? It's in the beta repository. It also happens to be the only part of this skin also hosted on the Kodi official repository.

Given how boldly highlighted it has been throughout this thread, there is no "spin." You are confused and rather combative about your own confusion.

Others here understand the need to differentiate the two versions; I don't know why you cannot and frankly, when I asked for community feedback I meant the new Settings page and not in regards to someone who is apparently so vastly confused they keep assuming things that are boldly highlighted as not being true.

Which really brings me back to that one point: do you think because the From Ashes Audio Suite is in Emby's Beta Repo it's also a beta?

You're arguing semantics without a foot to stand on for one reason: how boldly it's been indicated about the differentiation of the two versions. If I never said anything and just pushed 4.x out you'd have something to argue with but if virtually everyone can figure it out because it's so boldly highlighted than it's not what's in the name - it's just you.

I'm not going to continue with this pointless semantics argument. It's really not that hard to understand. If you even read the first post which you should have done to begin with you'd pick up on it pretty quickly let a lone all the posts on two different sites.

[Guardian Hope]

Continuing the Road to Danvers... First Look at "Stars"

So as the settings page and the color enhancer continue to be updated to provide everyone with more options, @minus0 has sent me one of the first previews of "stars selection," basically the customization of ratings. While I am very happy with what @minus0 has produced in this very early preview, like with the Skin Settings page, it would be great to get community feedback as we try to simplify the settings page:

And just so we are clear, I do mean the preview images for the Danvers Preview. I think I have already made it very clear why there is a name change for the preview and why there is an Addon ID change with the Krypton version.

Remember, these new updates won't be coming to Jarvis and are only for Krypton.

The next update is schedule for release this weekend. Do note that the Krypton version is still quite rough around the edges.

[soxism]

Id just like to take a quick time out and say a massive thankyou to Guardian Hope for this Skin (mod). Regardless of semantics and names etc After reading the first post i found it very easy to follow and understand.

Keep up the top work, and most of all. Name it the however the hell you want. :-)

[soflip]

Id just like to take a quick time out and say a massive thankyou to Guardian Hope for this Skin (mod). Regardless of semantics and names etc After reading the first post i found it very easy to follow and understand.

Keep up the top work, and most of all. Name it the however the hell you want. :-)

+1

[loggio]

I now understand why libreelec devs acted this way toward you.

Wish you all the best with this mod.
We'll agree to disagree.

Cya.

[rykios]

Id just like to take a quick time out and say a massive thankyou to Guardian Hope for this Skin (mod). Regardless of semantics and names etc After reading the first post i found it very easy to follow and understand.

Keep up the top work, and most of all. Name it the however the hell you want. :-)

+1

[Arokhaerr]

Id just like to take a quick time out and say a massive thankyou to Guardian Hope for this Skin (mod). Regardless of semantics and names etc After reading the first post i found it very easy to follow and understand.

Keep up the top work, and most of all. Name it the however the hell you want. :-)

another +1

Btw i just noticed that watched and partially watched States won't Show up on the list View on for example the twitch Addon. Is there any way to implementiert these or am I just missing something obvious in the settings?

[mikeSiLVO]

This thread seems to be going in a strange direction...

@Guardian Hope

I think that it is highly plausible that a majority of users won't read the first page completely and most not at all. There likely to skim through or just install and when things don't work come and post about it without reading much of anything. Also when asking for feedback from the community expect that feedback to be about anything and everything. Sometimes what you get can be helpful, annoying, and rude... All at the same time

I don't have a preference as to what nomenclature you wish to use to describe your skin and its updates. It is your skin and you can do whatever you like. I would however point out that two people have mentioned it possibly being a tad confusing.

You mention not liking when people CAPITALIZE when trying to highlight a point. I, myself, am not particularly fond of seeing Bolded Words to do the same. I guess, to each their own.

Time to get down to brass tacks...

If skin.helper is stopping skins from installing because the folder name inside the zip file doesn't match then I think there is a serious problem. I do not think that a script should be blocking built in Kodi functionality. Are you positive that the script was doing that?

I only mentioned what I did about the repo because you claimed it was a technological limitation. It is more like a knowledge limitation on how to setup a combined repo. I can sympathize with that since it took me awhile to find out that nugget of info on my own and I still do not know if the repo I maintain works the same across the Kodi forks (i.e. LibreElec, OpenElec, OSMC). I don't use the emby repos but I was trying to be helpful by possibly reducing issues you might face in the future due to changing the addon id. If you don't feel that it is necessary to pursue, I completely understand.

Lastly I want to wish you well with your health troubles. Hopefully all will work itself out in time.

I am off now to work on my:
Hourly, Daily, Weekly, Monthly, Seasonal, Super Premium Deluxe, Golden Diamond Award Winning, Special Anniversary Disney Vault Platinum Edition skin updates.

CodeName: SuperCaliFragilisticExpialiDocious :p