[C-Fu]

Just to be clear...
You're saying you think it's better to install libreelec via berryboot than to install libreelec directly?

Have I got that right?

I'm saying if you want to try out and decide for yourself as per the thread title, it's just better, easier, and faster to use berryboot's method rather than flashing the images/distros directly one by one. less hassle, and works 99% of the time.

that said, a random internet guy by the nickname C-Fu has been using LibreELEC, OSMC. OpenELEC, Peach Pi TV, Kodi via DietPi, custom dual/triple/quadruple Kodi distros in one image, Kodi as a supplementary app in RetroPie, Batocera, and other methods/OSes of getting Kodi on your Pi like via Raspbian and DietPi for quite a while now and based on his experience, he recommends Berryboot+LibreELEC for your Kodi needs on RPi for reasons as he (I) had stated before.

Point is, I'm just a random internet dude giving an opinion based on his experience. Another example, I used to flash LibreELEC/OSMC (with/without NOOBS), configured some stuff (time, wifi, weather, subtitle, youtube, backup, etc), and wanted to copy that preconfigured installation into another sd card. used win32diskimager, and I couldn't because both source and target sd card is of a different brand (and different size). resizing the 8GB/16GB/32GB sdcard image file on windows was confusing for him. not to mention took a lot of time and HDD space. now I just need to backup-restore just the OSMC/LibreELEC "image" (whatever the total size of the OS is, not the whole SD Card) in berryboot into another SD card or USB drive. No need to do LibreELEC/OSMC "hacks" like installing addons of commands, or scripts to install emulators, dual/triple/quad boot of Kodi OSes + Raspbian, etc anymore when restarting and picking another OS like retropie is almost as fast as exiting Kodi back into RetroPie now for instance.

Although, if you wanna do more than just Kodi, I'd go with OSMC. I still have a RPi 1 running OSMC + Print server 24/7 for.... a year plus now? Thanks to apt-get. Not to mention OSMC with a cli browser via a menu shortcut+short script. easy enough for a non-techie like me to add quick browsing functionality in kodi.

It's not impossible, it's just not recommended if you want to get OSMC updates as soon as they come in. Without being able to control firmware and kernel, we can't always guarantee things will work as expected.

Cheers

Sam

I understand, it makes a whole lot of sense to support just your method of getting Kodi on RPi. (not trying to sound negative just that my lack of technical expertise and jargon in describing what OSMC is, sorry ). I (and I think/hope whoever that follows my method) do not expect my opinion/recommendation to be able to get any support via respective Kodi OS forums. I'm just saying that OSMC and LibreELEC on Berryboot works very well now in my experience based on the berryboot images created by Alex http://berryboot.alexgoldcheidt.com/images/

[trogggy]

It really was a yes / no. Not a request for a stream of consciousness.

[ActionA]

Berryboot is known to be problematic with OSMC as it uses a shared kernel and firmware. OSMC is intended to run with it's specific kernel and firmware. IIRC NOOBS function allows for this and should provide the same ability as Berryboot to utilize multiple OS's on a single card.

https://discourse.osmc.tv/t/osmc-for-wd-...?u=actiona

[DarrenHill]

It's also a pain to update (unless it's changed recently) as the standard method of doing the update tar or tar.gz file into the update folder (either manually or automatically) doesn't work. The only way is a new image, and all the pain of basically backing up and restoring between seperate images.

[Max_nl]

It's also a pain to update (unless it's changed recently) as the standard method of doing the update tar or tar.gz file into the update folder (either manually or automatically) doesn't work.

That's only a problem with LibreELEC and not with any other distribution.
Works if you extract the update tar to the update folder, like OpenELEC does.

[Milhouse]

Works if you extract the update tar to the update folder, like OpenELEC does.

LibreELEC supports the same basic upgrade procedure as OpenELEC, including extracted tar, so that's not the problem.

NOOBS is the only supported multi-boot solution for LibreELEC (and all other distributions), as Berryboot is fundamentally problematic by design. It's impossible to provide official support for LibreELEC when used with Berryboot due to the unofficial/non-standard firmware, kernel and device tree that Berryboot imposes.

[Max_nl]

Works if you extract the update tar to the update folder, like OpenELEC does.

LibreELEC supports the same basic upgrade procedure as OpenELEC, including extracted tar, so that's not the problem.

Could be.
But we only support OpenELEC style updates.
As in Berryboot will replace the SYSTEM file, if there is a new one in /storage/.update or /storage/.kodi/temp/oe_update
But we do not do any extra work, like extracting archives.

That works with OpenELEC's automated update procedure that downloads and extracts the .tar before rebooting.
But will not work with yours, that changed the procedure (here) and now expects the initramfs to do the latter.

NOOBS is the only supported multi-boot solution for LibreELEC (and all other distributions), as Berryboot is fundamentally problematic by design. It's impossible to provide official support for LibreELEC when used with Berryboot due to the unofficial/non-standard firmware, kernel and device tree that Berryboot imposes.

I still disagree with that stance.

Your software should run fine regardless of firmware version.
Just like it shouldn't be necessary to upgrade your BIOS every time you install a new OS on your pc...

[ActionA]

The raspberry pi is not a traditional PC... It's much closer to a "developer board" than to PC...

[Milhouse]

But will not work with yours, that changed the procedure (here) and now expects the initramfs to do the latter.

Right, that's just the automated download which has been optimised a touch - good, that explains that, then. If the LE download then upgrade had succeeded it would likely cause even more of a mess.

I still disagree with that stance.

Your software should run fine regardless of firmware version.
Just like it shouldn't be necessary to upgrade your BIOS every time you install a new OS on your pc...

Respectfully, you're wrong. Did you see the Pi0W specific fixes that went into the latest firmware and device tree shipped with LibreELEC 8.0.1?

If LibreELEC 8.0.1 is used with older or different firmware/kernel/device tree, stuff may (worst case) not work or may show errors/behaviour we believe to have already been fixed in the firmware or kernel or device tree we shipped with 8.0.1. Therefore, it becomes much more difficult to offer support when Berryboot is switching core components out behind the scenes.

LibreELEC is provided by us as a "complete system" - ie. known versions of firmware, kernel, device tree and userland that are (to varying degrees) inter dependent - and this gives us a fighting chance of reproducing issues as we have the same software/system as the user on our own machines.

LibreELEC is not intended to be a pick n' mix, which is what it becomes with Berryboot. We don't know what firmware or kernel or device tree the user has on their device when they report a problem while using Berryboot, and for all we know the problem being reported may very well be caused by Berryboot.

[Max_nl]

Respectfully, you're wrong. Did you see the Pi0W specific fixes that went into the latest firmware and device tree shipped with LibreELEC 8.0.1?

Not sure if I am following you here.
There haven't been any fixes to the DTS since it was made public.

Or do you mean the addition of the file itself?
Yes, if an user would have been running some older Berryboot version -prior to the release of the Pi Zero W- he wouldn't be able to use the wifi of the W.

He would then not be able to download and install any operating system image to start with, though.
So do not think he will go complaining to you that his wifi doesn't work in LibreELEC or anything like that...

If LibreELEC 8.0.1 is used with older or different firmware/kernel/device tree, stuff may (worst case) not work or may show errors/behaviour we believe to have already been fixed in the firmware or kernel or device tree we shipped with 8.0.1. Therefore, it becomes much more difficult to offer support when Berryboot is switching core components out behind the scenes.

The BIOS, hardware, GPU drivers and GPU firmware on a normal PC can affect how it operates as well.
Most Linux distributions deal with that fine in practice though.
Different kernel would be possible if kexec() was fixed.

[Milhouse]

Not sure if I am following you here.
There haven't been any fixes to the DTS since it was made public.

Or do you mean the addition of the file itself?

I mean there were firmware, kernel and device tree changes to support the new features of the Pi0W hardware, plus at least 3 new sound cards. There have been firmware enhancements to support improved HEVC decoding (Pi2/Pi3). And CEC bug fixes (amongst many other bug fixes). All of this is in the official LibreELEC 8.0.1 release but may or may not be in Berryboot when running only the "LibreELEC 8.0.1" userland.

From a support perspective, there are frankly multiple reasons why randomly mixing old firmware, old kernel and old device tree with a LibreELEC userland built for a very specific and entirely different firmware, kernel and device tree is a bad idea.

Randomly mixing and matching as happens with Berryboot is likely to lead to a bad LibreELEC/OSMC/OpenELEC user experience (eg. crashes that can't be reproduced in official LibreELEC, the reappearance of firmware or kernel or device tree bugs that have already been fixed in the official LibreELEC release and should no longer exist, and even missing dtbs for those new sound cards that we know are included in the official LibreELEC release etc.).

What the Berryboot user ends up running is simply not supportable by us as it's not even something we've created let alone tested.

The BIOS, hardware, GPU drivers and GPU firmware on a normal PC can affect how it operates as well.
Most Linux distributions deal with that fine in practice though.
Different kernel would be possible if kexec() was fixed.

Sure. And we provide a Generic build of LibreELEC for x86_64 hardware that ships with audio drivers and GPU drivers built for the specific kernel we include in our releases, often a patched custom kernel, so if Berryboot worked on x86_64 and began swapping out our LibreELEC kernel and associated kernel modules for something else we'd be having this same conversation.

If users want to multi-boot Raspberry Pi distributions reliably and predictably (and expect support) they should use NOOBS (IMHO).

[Max_nl]

I mean there were firmware, kernel and device tree changes to support the new features of the Pi0W hardware, plus at least 3 new sound cards.

Sound cards on the Pi are a separate subject altogether.
Never really understood why all those "new" sound cards based on the same series of chips need a separate driver of their own.
When even the manufacturers seem to forget to search & replace the product name of the design they based their product on at times:

Name: dionaudio-loco-v2
Info: Configures the Dion Audio LOCO-V2 DAC-AMP
Load: dtoverlay=dionaudio-loco-v2,<param>=<val>
Params: 24db_digital_gain Allow gain to be applied via the PCM512x codec
Digital volume control. Enable with
"dtoverlay=hifiberry-dacplus,24db_digital_gain"

There have been firmware enhancements to support improved HEVC decoding (Pi2/Pi3).

Ah, didn't know that.
Assumed you simply fed a list of instructions to execute on the GPU from user-space.

Sure. And we provide a Generic build of LibreELEC for x86_64 hardware that ships with audio drivers and GPU drivers built for the specific kernel we include in our releases, often a patched custom kernel, so if Berryboot worked on x86_64 and began swapping out our LibreELEC kernel and associated kernel modules for something else we'd be having this same conversation.

A Berryboot version for x86 would simply let you use your own kernel through kexec()
The Raspberry Pi is the only platform where that is broken.

You would still need to account for things like different hardware and test for actual GPU capabilities though.
Instead of hard coding assumptions.

[blueribb]

OpenElec 8.0 (stable) was released yesterday and now I can't access my SMB Windows 10 wired network. I get a login request box asking for login and password, neither of which I use. I posted this problem on the OE Forum but haven't gotten a solution (yet). I re-installed OE 7.1 and the network issue went away. I'll wait a week or so and then try LibreELEC if no solution is found.

Update: Many problems including mine have been reported with verison 8.0 of OpenElec. I guess it's time to make the switch.

[nickr]

Seriously? Openelec? Someone is still using it?

[dadoremix]

hi
i am new
but i have a question
anyone have tried to add movian (https://movian.tv/downloads/movian) to multiboot to NOOBS_lite_v2_4 or how ?