[davilla]

Some like pi, some like ion, some like droid, some like ios. I have them all and they don't fight near as much as I see on the forums.

[natethomas]

Hi everyone, this is your friendly neighborhood community manager. I decided to give PatrickBateman a 1 day cool down. While I appreciate his fire and candor, cursing at people and name-calling are generally frowned upon.

For the record, there are probably almost as many iOS users on the team as Android users. I use both, for example, and I definitely see the appeal of having XBMC on iOS devices. In this case, in order to get what people want, we have to deal with two issues. First, it's obviously not a simple port we'd be looking at, since XBMC as it stands would be auto-rejected and gimped XBMC simply isn't worthwhile. Second, as everyone knows, XBMC is free, which means the thing Patrick and so many others wants is only going to be possible if somebody with the necessary coding skills ALSO wants it, since we can't wave a magic project management wand and put a dedicated and paid team on the task.

If I were you guys, it seems to me the move to make would be to convince one of the remote control developers to include a local playback feature. Until we get transcoding support built into XBMC such a feature would probably be a little gimped, but it'd clearly be the first major step to something much bigger. To get a a remote control dev on the job, I highly doubt having a fight in the general discussion section of the XBMC forum is the way forward. You'd be better of directly contacting them and gauging their interest.

[natethomas]

Ok,
So I'm PatricBateman and just got banned for supposedly name calling Martin?
I have only explained that he lied in his post, he then accused me, and I posted a factual xbmc.org quote as my defence, which does indeed prove he has lied to create a false defence for himself?

Now you ban me?

My only name call to Martin was stating that his post was a categorical lie and posted factual evidence as my defence, in the form of a factual unedited post on these forums.

To ban me seemed extreme, considering Martin lied, not me?
What's happening here?
That seems incredibly excessive and dramatic considering he lied not me..

Is this standard practice now?

Here was the phrase that triggered my (extremely rarely used 1 day ban hammer). "What an idiot and a liar you are!" It appears you then editted your post and removed that phrase, but the phrase was very much there when I read it. Since that violates roughly 90% of the General Conduct rules on the forum, it typically results in a temporary ban. In your cause, I went with 1 day, which will be automatically lifted in 24 hours.

[WayneFlix]

also iOS is also one of the least used devices for xbmc

I would suspect this is due to the jailbreak requirement. Most iOS users do not jailbreak their devices. Most wouldn't even know where to begin.

-----------
As for the Overpriced comment above, My family owns a variety of devices from different manufacturers including Android and Kindle Fire devices. However we use the iOS devices more and for many different things so we tend to have more of them. Dollar for Dollar, we get more value out of iOS than other mobile solutions. Your usage may be different.

My point wasn't to incite arguments though. XBMC isn't a solution for everyone. I like it on my Windows Desktop. I had hoped it could be a whole house solution. Unfortunately it isn't in my household. For better or worse. Luckily I have created a solution that works across all devices and allows me to play with XBMC on my local workstation. Maybe one day it will be more. Maybe Not. iOS and Roku are the two sticking points in my house.

Who knows maybe you'll have a whole house sharing solution that really works in XBMC 14 that makes jailbreaking worth it. I'll just have to see what 2015 brings.

[T800]

How hard is jailbreaking nowadays? When I had some ApleTV2 I had to jailbreak them, it was worth it to get XBMC working.

Why isn't everyone just getting the jailbreak done and getting on with life?

[Ned Scott]

How hard is jailbreaking nowadays? When I had some ApleTV2 I had to jailbreak them, it was worth it to get XBMC working.

Why isn't everyone just getting the jailbreak done and getting on with life?

Painfully easy. I've been jailbreaking since 2009-ish, with several different Apple iOS devices. So far the only device that actually hit a wall for jailbreaking is the ATV3, and part of that is a lack of interest, and part is a lack of variables for exploits. It's never been an issue for me.

[Platypus2]

How hard is jailbreaking nowadays? When I had some ApleTV2 I had to jailbreak them, it was worth it to get XBMC working.

Why isn't everyone just getting the jailbreak done and getting on with life?

Painfully easy.

*Provided you do it at the right time, never have to update your firmware or lose/damage your device and never decide to upgrade?

Otherwise, getting harder each year no? It's been what, 8-9 months without a viable jailbreak? And now with the mess that happened with this release, it looks like the window to jailbreak ios 7 is going to last a maximum of 4 weeks, won't be surprised if 7.0.5 is out before feb - that is if 7.1 with patches isn't out before then. And then what? How is it painfully easy lol?

Unless I'm reading too much into it and you mean the process of clicking the 'jailbreak' button is painfully easy :p. Otherwise I completly disagree.

[davilla]

fight that silly urge to update your firmware once you let go of that rat race then jailbreaks are quite easy.

[Platypus2]

fight that silly urge to update your firmware once you let go of that rat race then jailbreaks are quite easy.

I have no problem resisting the urge to update, but when the device requires it due to a bad tweak or whatever...there's nothing you can do about it :p. Personally never had that problem, and I am going to be careful this time around - probably going to just stick to xbmc and ifile but I have read quite a few people saying its happened to them

It's also a problem for new users, for example I never had an interest in jailbreaks until XBMC and nowadays it's very likely you can't just turn around and jailbreak whenever you want, you have to wait till the right time. Also any device you get in March now from apple will probably be unjailbreakable for quite some time, possibly 2015...

I understand why xbmc requires a jailbroken device, it's just I've waited for a jailbreak now since may (that's what, 7 months!?)...and then to see someone say it's 'painfully easy' >.<. It just isn't true lol. If we are on topic about resisting urge to upgrade, my ipad 2 was on 5.0.0. Guess what firmware (probably the only firmware at the moment) that isn't jailbreakable at all? 5.0.0 on ipad 2 (even iPhones running it could jailbreak lol)....so yeah, was stuck with 6.1.3 and waiting.

[Ned Scott]

You are confusing the existence of a jailbreak with the process of applying a jailbreak.


Even then I wouldn't call it "hard". Why? Because anyone can search to see what iOS devices are currently jailbreakable when they buy one, you are almost never forced to upgrade (sometimes certain apps will require it, but being jailbroken you can often fake the requirement), and jailbroken devices often patch known security flaws before Apple does.

When iOS 7.1 comes out, if it patches the current jailbreak, then I plan on just staying with iOS 7. I was on iOS 6.1 until yesterday, and the trade off between jailbroken and having iOS 7 made it worth staying behind. The same will undoubtedly be true for 7.1. Does it mean you can't hyper update the moment a new version of iOS comes out? Yep, but it's not "hard" to not upgrade right away. Newer isn't always "better". I'm fairly certain I was on iOS 5 for a long time before being able to jailbreak to 6, but I always knew the situation ahead of time.

Even for brand new users, at least once, if not twice a year, there's a significant window open (sometimes much longer and more often). Once you're in you have control, and a jailbreak hasn't been out of reach for so long that it realistically becomes and issue for apps.

[kreeturez]

ever thought about not buying some overpriced Apple stuff?

Huh? Martijn, respectfully: I'm not convinced you should be on the general forums; you don't seem to have the patience. You're a fantastic dev (and personally, all your contributions to the codebase are much, much, much appreciated!), but if you can't accept the views of others here and find yourself just getting irritated with your users all the time, you should stick to the dev forums... as it stands, you're just coming off as kinda rude; which isn't constructive.

fight that silly urge to update your firmware once you let go of that rat race then jailbreaks are quite easy.

Haha, but that little '1' badge on on the 'Settings' icon beckons! (wait, there's a Cydia Tweak for that!)
But you're right: this is the approach I've ended up taking myself!

Even for brand new users, at least once, if not twice a year, there's a significant window open (sometimes much longer and more often). Once you're in you have control, and a jailbreak hasn't been out of reach for so long that it realistically becomes and issue for apps.

Like you, I updated to iOS 7 on several of my devices two days ago, specifically because of the Jailbreak release.

It's not feasible for everyone though: for instance my iPhone 5 came bundled with iOS 6.1.4 which had no jailbreak available; I waited 7 months to get the opportunity to jailbreak.

Hence I understand everyone else here to whom that doesn't appeal. Jailbreaking just to get XBMC is a fair share of effort; and remember there's a good chance that if you applied an iOS update OTA, the jailbreak will fail, requiring a full restore to succeed. (Happened to two of my devices).


The simple solution for now, for users who don't want to Jailbreak, want to stick to Open-Source, and need their media streamed to their iOS devices: just install MediaBrowser 3 Server, and grab the iOS app. Or use it's Web UI in Safari.

The combination of XBMC for your TV's (rPi, HTPC/NUC, Android) and MB3 (for iOS, Roku, and general transcoding) should have all bases covered. And both can have their watched statuses synced with respective Trakt plugins.

This is what we do for now and, whilst it's a pity to have to rely on two separate ecosystems, it works nicely and keeps everyone in my household happy: later down the line, when XBMC has transcoding implemented, and the iOS App uses it, XBMC could cover all of these bases in one product. I'll be patient until then!

[Martijn]

ever thought about not buying some overpriced Apple stuff?

Huh? Martijn, respectfully: I'm not convinced you should be on the general forums; you don't seem to have the patience. You're a fantastic dev (and personally, all your contributions to the codebase are much, much, much appreciated!), but if you can't accept the views of others here and find yourself just getting irritated with your users all the time, you should stick to the dev forums... as it stands, you're just coming off as kinda rude; which isn't constructive.

this was actually a genuine question and not to belittle Apple users.
if people want to use the devices purely for use of XBMC, Apple product are to expensive for the limited usage. There are far cheaper devices that deliver the same capabilities for pure XBMC use. Just look at the recent outburst of Raspberry Pi users. Small cheap device which is perfectly for HTPC use and open source.
When it comes to tablets you will need a far better more expensive device (looking at Android) to get a decent experience so there's only a small gap between Android and Apple.

So if it's also for other usage I can surely understand that you prefer these product.

Just as analogy:
People who buy a computer including windows purely for XBMC use haven't been paying attention as you can just as easily install a Linux distro (like OpenELEC) to get the same experience. Only reason to include Windows would be for playing Blu-ray with an external player which you also need to purchase.

[kreeturez]

this was actually a genuine question and not to belittle Apple users.
if people want to use the devices purely for use of XBMC, Apple product are to expensive for the limited usage. There are far cheaper devices that deliver the same capabilities for pure XBMC use. Just look at the recent outburst of Raspberry Pi users. Small cheap device which is perfectly for HTPC use and open source.
When it comes to tablets you will need a far better more expensive device (looking at Android) to get a decent experience so there's only a small gap between Android and Apple.

So if it's also for other usage I can surely understand that you prefer these product.

Just as analogy:
People who buy a computer including windows purely for XBMC use haven't been paying attention as you can just as easily install a Linux distro (like OpenELEC) to get the same experience. Only reason to include Windows would be for playing Blu-ray with an external player which you also need to purchase.

Yup, XBMC on Windows is overkill; huge punter of OpenELEC myself.

The tablet debate is a bit more complex - I know he's banned (I can quote people who're banned without getting banned myself, right ) but this sums it up for me:

there is no doubt that their products are popular, easy to use, beautiful and (in my opinion as an IT guy) far better than any android device or windows tablet that I have encountered for what I use them for.

I work with complex IT systems all day, it's nice to kick back and use a device that just works, so simply, so effortlessly and so reliably. Ok, so we can't root the device and blah blah ... Who cares? A very small minority. I come home from work, tap flip book, watch tv catchup, surf the web, face time my family and monitor my home CCTV/door entry systems etc all in single click apps. So easy, so effortless and simply beautiful.

I really agree with this; I haven't found an Android tab that I feel can compete (that's just personal opinion). Media playback is just one facet of use: the remainder of the iOS app store is the other. I wouldn't want to force myself to use another tablet platform just for XBMC, much as I do love XBMC.

Hence the existence of this thread - and the OP sums it up nicely: reasons for jailbreaking are wearing thin these days; requiring a full JB just for XBMC is becoming a bit of a hindrance and may, with time, hurt our numbers here...

[wsnipex]

You also get what your pay for with apple: a walled garden that doesn't let you use your device as you see fit.

[Platypus2]

You also get what your pay for with apple: a walled garden that doesn't let you use your device as you see fit.

I agree, but then that is what makes jailbreaking so great . That being said, what it can do...it does do well and I'm sure aside from the hardcore apple fans that is what makes their devices sell. My problem is that I could easily get a second tablet just for xbmc, but then I have to carry around 2 tablets, one for xbmc and one for general everyday stuff and that just seems silly to me...buying a tablet just for one application? I love xbmc but not enough to justify buying and carrying around 2 tablets

I am probably gonna get shot for this but anyway; Is it out the realm of possibility to reach some sort of compromise someday? I understand that XBMC will never get into the App store, and that a stripped down version is a horrid thought and its pointless to even talk or ask about that.

But over the next few years would it not be possible to, carefully, talk about how XBMC might be able to use locked devices as a sort of external player or screen. Pretty much like this 'glorified remote' idea that's going around. I know people immediately jump on the transcode bandwagon when they hear this, but does it have to be? If I'm not talking about right now, is there going to be a need to transcode in the future? The A7 chips in the new devices are pretty capable already of coping with mostly everything I can throw at it (not via xbmc but other software decoding apps), so who knows what it will be like in the future (A8/A9 etc). The thing for me is that 1) If I wanted transcoding there are other alternatives available for that at the moment - Plex, MB3 etc and 2) A tablet arguably should be 'portable' and tying it to a server for transcoding kind of limits this (especially in the UK where both rural internet connections and mobile data speeds suck). Now obviously some sort of server would be needed but a portable PI or something like a hacked seagate might be able to handle just the database/server side of things, obviously not transcoding. That said there are pretty big issues with no transcoding at the moment, probably the biggest being DTS.

Basically I am just wondering about how against this sort of idea devs are? Its easy to tell that they are against any sort of xbmc application in itself on a locked device due to how much would need to be stripped away, but if the device was simply used as an external player or screen is that reasonable? Or will this still cause opposition? I'd just like to know where the line is - its very hard to find out when you ask and its "No", fullstop, end of discussion. I think some people were completely against the idea of XBMC even on a jailbroken iOS device (and left because of it?) so maybe this sort of thing will never come to light? I just thought it might have been something to discuss when looking at XBMC 14 or 15 given how the UPnP features seem to be progressing.