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2014-12-15, 11:09
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 11:25 by Sunflux.)
To expand on my previous post... I've noticed something very strange in terms of greyscale reproduction (using the latest STABLE of OpenElec):
#1: OS RGB Full + Kodi Limited + TV Limited + No VAAPI = perfect greyscale reproduction, no banding
#2; OS RGB Full + Kodi Limited + TV Limited + VAAPI = significant black crush, banding
#3: OS RGB Full + Kodi Full + TV Full + No VAPPI = perfect greyscale reproduction, banding
#4: OS RGB Full + Kodi Full + TV Full + VAPPI = perfect greyscale reproduction, banding
#5: OS RGB Limited + TV Limited + No VAPPI = perfect greyscale reproduction, banding
#6: OS RGB Limited + TV Limited + VAPPI = perfect greyscale reproduction, banding
Based on this, the absolute best quality reproduction with my equipment is #1, AKA "RGB full made turned into limited with no VAAPI".
What concerns me, however, is I'm seeing significant black crush in the same environment merely by turning on VAAPI. Essentially, it is IGNORING Kodi's software limited mode setting and changing video levels to reproduce correctly in a "Full RGB" environment. Which is no doubt why if I force the TV into "Full" mode, then the VAAPI greyscale reproduces correctly.
#7: OS RGB Full + Kodi Limited + TV Full + No VAAPI = improper greyscale reproduction (see below 16, above 235), no banding
#8; OS RGB Full + Kodi Limited + TV Full + VAAPI = perfect greyscale reproduction (but GUI colors way elevated), banding
Any idea what's up here? Is it even possible to get VAAPI to not have banding?
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fritsch
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2014-12-15, 11:21
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 11:23 by fritsch.)
Nothing and: this won't change.
Whenever VAAPI Render Method (helix) enabled or Use SW Filter (gotham) disabled. VAAPI will scale the image to full range RGB, this happens with vaPutSurface - we can absolutely do nothing about it, as the API does not give us the chance to receive the NV12 surfaces. With those two settings the "Use Limited Range" has absolutely no effect and VAAPI itself will produce full range RGB we (xbmc) cannot touch. This can only be scaled "back to limited" when using the Output in limited mode (gpu setting, e.g. xrandr).
The only chance to get a Limited Range out of xbmc is:
Helix: Disable "Use VAAPI Render Method" and _don't_ use MCDI or MADI or VAAPI BOB, as they will reenable this Render Method and set "Use Limited Range"
Gotham: "Use SW Filter" enabled and set "Use Limited Range" in xbmc while setting the GPU to full range (xrandr)
Use SW Filter is only an option in OpenELEC 4.x, it was never in mainline.
We hope to get an EGL version of VAAPI going after helix, that won't have this f*cking vaPutSurface needed, cause this also puts high load onto slow GPUs (e.g. Baytrails).
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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2014-12-15, 11:32
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 11:34 by Sunflux.)
Thanks for the information.
As you indicate, I was able to get proper Limited greyscale out of VAAPI in situation #6, however I could still see banding. Is this kind of banding inherent to VAAPI and/or whenever dynamic range conversion is required? I only ever saw perfectly smooth greyscales in situations #1 and (although otherwise improper for video reproduction) #7.
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fritsch
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2014-12-15, 11:37
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 11:39 by fritsch.)
In fact there are those possiblities, that work "somehow":
Limited:
#6: OS RGB Limited + TV Limited + VAPPI (Kodi color setting has no influence)
#10: OS RGB FULL + Kodi Limited + TV Limited + VAAPI with (Prefer Render Method disabled / or Use SW Filter)
Full:
#4: OS RGB Full + TV Full + VAPPI ((Kodi color setting has no influence)
#$ OS RGB Full + Kodi Full + TV Full + VAAPI with Use SWfilter
Edit: Formulated it more clearly. And btw. think of what happens, if you scale a 16.235 image to a 0..255 range. Do a calculation for a: 16,17,18,...,235 gradient!
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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noggin
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2014-12-15, 12:45
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 12:50 by noggin.)
It really is a pity that there is no way of running XBMC with YCrCb Limited preserved from source file to display with no conversion to RGB and no conversion to Full range, and only an upscale to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 from the 4:2:0 source media. However the complication of the difference BT601 (SD) and BT709 (HD) colourspace would be interesting... If you could somehow engineer a GUI/OSD overlay - allowing these elements to be rendered RGB by XBMC and then converted to YCrCb 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 when feeding YCrCb displays that would be an interesting approach (I think that is how many hardware devices like satellite receivers etc. run - or used to)
But I realise, architecturally, this isn't really an issue.
I guess the approach is either :
Let the OS handle levelspace (which means YCrCb->RGB conversion and Limited->Full and then optionally RGB->YCrCb and optionally Full->Limited)
Fool the OS and cheat it by pretending that Limited levelspace is Full levelspace (which allows you to preserve <16 and >235 levels in Limited content AND avoid the banding caused by the lack of transparent reversibility between YCrCb Limited and RGB Full at 8bits)
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2014-12-15, 13:14
(This post was last modified: 2014-12-15, 13:16 by Sunflux.)
I'm not confused by how the "Prefer VAAPI Render Method" and "Use Sw Filter" settings work... but I'm still on Gotham, so I just pick the one that's staring me in the face. :-)
But, I do know that using VAAPI Rendering offers a noticeable improvement on CPU usage, which is why I had been eagerly waiting for someone to fix the hanging bug... but now, I'm learning there doesn't seem to be any way to use VAAPI Rendering AND avoid banding. Also, that the only way to use it with Limited RGB range involves double range conversion. Is the double conversion transparent (such that the second conversion doesn't make banding worse)?
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Hi all,
Is there a way to change the location for the temporary streaming file?
I'm using a dualboot setup with my Asus Chromebox, I guess I have about 7GB in /storage
Because of space limitations, I'm not able to stream movies bigger than 7GB (using Genesis or xbmctorrent for example).
If there is no way to change this, can I increase the OPENELEC partition without having to format it?
Thanks for your help
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jsp1
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I'm sure there is a knowledge or language barrier here somewhere, but I'm more confused than ever about VAAPI and how to deal with it to achieve best picture results.
Here is my situation:
1) I do not need deinterlacing as far as I'm aware (no "i" content)
2) I had perfect greyscale ramp before this improvement with VAAPI
3) I had to significantly change my settings to get almost (but not) perfect ramp after installing the test compile with VAAPI fix
So, since no interlaced content to deal with, should I just disable VAAPI altogether? Is there a significant performance hit, one that may hinder high quality content such as 30Mbps+ 1080p from disabling VAAPI?
Lastly, how do I ensure I do not use MCDI, MADI or VAAPI-BOB ? Is this inherent in disabling VAAPI?
Frankly, I was having almost no freeze ups before, so I'm thinking just roll back and go with my previous setup. However, once VAAPI fix goes mainline and options change, I want to know what to do.