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Kodi DSPlayer – DirectShow Player for Windows
(2015-11-25, 00:03)djoole Wrote: KODI is used by people wanting a simple all in one solution and not regarding quality.
DSPlayer is a niche software for people wanting the best quality possible (that's why i have a Windows HTPC and not an android box)

I understand why Kodi dev team doesn't want DSPlayer.

What I don't understand is why aracnoz is alone on this amazing project.

DSPlayer can be made as user friendly as Kodi, so I don't see how that argument is valid.
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Just to have some balance, I highly appreciate what aracnoz did with DSPlayer and how far he took it. I hope he will not lose his motivation and will keep on improving it. There is clearly demand for DSPlayer shown by the fact that it raised from its ashes a few times already.

I disagree with Fernet about not contributing code. It is the team's decision to not take the DSPlayer and with that the countless hours put into this piece of code.

I doubt DSPlayer will ever be in mainline and there are valid reasons for that (who would maintain it in the long term?). I see no problem with that though. Just keep the code clean to enable easy merges with upstream in the future and it can live a healthy life as a fork for Windows users who demand the extensibility and high video quality DSPlayer delivers.
My patches (source code) :: Windows installer builds
These builds are unofficial! If you find a bug, make sure it is also present in a recent official build and you can reproduce it before filing a ticket.
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Hi,

Honestly I usually don't get into arguments over the forums (have learnt it the hard way that it never...........)

But looking at the attitude of the official Kodi Team Am just......

Quote:The only argument? Another argument is: It would not benefit _any_ platform at all and windows - my dear friends - is only used on ~ 15 % of all kodi installations.

Well Mister almighty official developer sure it doesn't benefit 100% of the Kodi users,but what about those it is benefiting ?? Why are hell bent of stopping people who are getting a benefit ??

What makes you so high and mighty that you speak to other developers without any respect Huh have at least some decency and courtesy to the fellow developer.

You say Araconoz didn't add any piece of code to the Kodi and because of that you are upset/pissed !?? What bout the pains he's taken to keep the code intact without changing it a whole lot or to get the basic code and build a complete new UI and offer it as a standalone product ?? Others have already said much in this regard so will not....

Finally my Question to you almighty,Whats the big harm to you or to Kodi if you dedicate a section or a subforum to DSPlayer (I mean that's all he ever wanted from you besides one or two words of advice or inputs) ,You are answering queries on daily basis ( I presume) so answering one or two questions in regards to DSPlayer shouldn't do no harm to you.

I and countless others are hooked to Kodi only cause of DS Player and its capabilities (sure we are minorities,but that will not always be the case,cause I know for a fact that when XBMC started you didn't have all the fancy features supporting everything under the sun either and didn't have number of users that you have now ).

I only request you to kindly not kill the project for some unknown problem that you have with it and let us get the benefit that we are getting and want to get from the Project.

Regards.
MOBO :AMD A68i-350
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CPU : 1.6GHZ DUAL CORE
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If it's 15 or 35% is not really important (as we also don't know how many windows users have fast enough hardware to use the advanced algorithms adverdized in this thread). Let's say if dsplayer would be the default player for windows users, integrated into kodi, dvd player interfacce robbed out for windows only - all interfaces doubled, huge #ifdeffery and so on - Then I can directly say what will happen:
- We currently have exactly one (!) active windows DXVA developer, no one else is working on kodi for windows. > 80% of our devs are linux / mac only - the windows users instead are those with the least patches / pullrequests whatever but by far screaming loudest. Nobody did step up in the last two years - if afedchin, our windows dev, would not have such a strong mind I think he had quit already - with all the shit postings vs the DX11 upgrade of lame AMD user with shitty hardware and drivers ... unbelievable.
- Someone needs to support DSPlayer for non technical users, needs to explain again and again which filters to use and so on
- It also needs to be explained why feature X, feature Y does not work on the average Pentium 4 / Nvidia GT210 windows setup.
- The percentage of windows users with capable hardware (CPU / GPU whatever) that can use all those fancy filters that need a lot of hw performance (be it CPU, OpenCL) let's say perhaps 33 % of the windows user has? So the real value will only be for a quite low percentage of the windows users. I read somewhere about an example of upscaling 1080p to a 4k screen ... nearly all NUCs out there (perhaps not the SKLs) are not fast enough to even do a "simple" lanczos3 upscaling filter to get this processed - so that use case won't be fullfiled for these users at all - no new value for them.
- Everything that will be fixed for dsplayer won't change a single thing for 65% to 85% of all other kodi users.
- Kodi is cross platform and meant to work with a maximum of shared components for all architectures
- Most of the fanboys here in this thread, especially those that scream loudest (not (!) those that actually have a clue and write the code) don't care at all for Raspberry Pi, Arm, OSX, Linux and so on - they only think of their personal usecase

For the last poster: Nobody harms any user that wants to use this external player but it definitely has no place in core as it - as said - will only be fully usable by a very low minority will blow up our codebase and sidetrack the "one" developer we have for windows. It will be a step into a direction where kodi is not a crossplatform software anymore but yet another specialized player for the 10%

So what value would a Celeron 2955U user with 4 gb memory get from DSPlayer? What could a Broadwell core i3 NUC user do with these new features? What are the esentials that are missing for _all_ of our users that kodi's player is missing?

I don't have a problem implementing e.g. Sharpening, Tone detection, whatever that helps everyone - but I have a hug problem to add 10000 lines of code that only helps a low percentage of a large userbase while disuniting the users and making our code base even less maintainable
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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you are aware that the current version of DSplayer supports EVR? so the "average Pentium 4 / Nvidia GT210" can use this DSplayer without issues.
madVR works totally fine with an GPU like an HD 4400 so a fancy GPU isn't needed and there is still EVR which should be the default renderer.

Quote:- Someone needs to support DSPlayer for non technical users, needs to explain again and again which filters to use and so on
Quote:- It also needs to be explained why feature X, feature Y does not work on the average Pentium 4 / Nvidia GT210 windows setup.
a default setup with lavfilter, EVR and vs filter will work out of the box the rest is like addons.
it's very important that the DSplayer work for everyone and thanks to EVR it should/will.
and doesn't it help a lot when lavfilter takes care of all these DXVA decoder?
Quote:- The percentage of windows users with capable hardware (CPU / GPU whatever) that can use all those fancy filters that need a lot of hw performance (be it CPU, OpenCL) let's say perhaps 33 % of the windows user has? So the real value will only be for a quite low percentage of the windows users. I read somewhere about an example of upscaling 1080p to a 4k screen ... nearly all NUCs out there (perhaps not the SKLs) are not fast enough to even do a "simple" lanczos3 upscaling filter to get this processed - so that use case won't be fullfiled for these users at all - no new value for them.
even an iGPU is fast enough to use a lot of madVR features.
UHD usage is pretty unreal on an nuc they don't support HDMI 2.0 and they don't have a 10 bit HEVC decoder. so the number of user will be very low for UHD and i don't see any issues with EVR.
but every windows user gets the possibility to use a lot more features.

Quote:- Most of the fanboys here in this thread, especially those that scream loudest (not (!) those that actually have a clue and write the code) don't care at all for Raspberry Pi, Arm, OSX, Linux and so on - they only think of their personal usecase

isn't that pretty normal for users?
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(2015-11-25, 13:51)huhn Wrote: isn't that pretty normal for users?

Hehe - yeah. You did not comment on my multiplatform user point of view. So - kodi for everyone with an amount of features that covers 90% use case is not possible in your eyes?
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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(2015-11-25, 13:53)fritsch Wrote: Hehe - yeah. You did not comment on my multiplatform user point of view. So - kodi for everyone with an amount of features that covers 90% use case is not possible in your eyes?

of cause not, directshow is windows only. it obviously not going to help 90% of all user. wasn't it the same with the DX11 update and isn't all DXVA development windows only?
the biggest benefit i see is that a lot of other people will create and update features that can be used in KODI.

so as far as i see this special work is needed for windows and it's done already.

i mean is there even a way to get 10 bit data to an GPU without directx10 or newer on windows? i don't know.
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DX11 step was done, to have non hacked fractional modes - which did not work correctly at all before. Also it is the most tested version on Windows 8 and later - if you remember how bad kodi ran on Windows 8+ before (if it ran at all) ... it was highly needed to stay working on the current windows operating systems.

Quote:the biggest benefit i see is that a lot of other people will create and update features that can be used in KODI.

With every additional filter for this directshow framework also again only these 10% benefit.

Our DXVA implementation implements a render interface and one of the DVDCodec interface. The Player which instruments this implementation uses the very same interface on every platform we support. It's the same for OpenGL / VAAPI on linux or GLES / VTB on MAC.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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I refrained to comment in the devs section, respecting FernetMenta request. I see devs, some of them at least, have come here. And that is good thing in my opinion. At least having a dialogue is better than nothing.

I've been here for a long time, more than 10 years now (registration date notwithstanding) and in that time frame I've seen devs refusing the idea of developing for PC, at all. Then XBMC coming to Linux only, and devs stating that it would have been the only OS they could support. We see now where Kodi is and I think that speaks volumes about the overall project capability of facing change. In a positive way.

fritsch, I read all of your last post... and then I glanced at your signature and I found nevcariel's comment, which you chose to put there. "Of course, they [XP Users and people with outdated hardware] need to tell the world about the kind of hero they are, and block innovation for everyone else because their decades old OS / hardware needs to work =p".
After your post's content it was somewhat ironic, considering that you seem to care a great deal about people with Pentium 4/ GT210 setups, people with NUCs, people with Celeron 2955U (not stating that caring for them is wrong, just reiterating that making them stop work devoted to better quality is wrong).

You then refer to DSPlayer being an external player. And words matter. This is not an external player. What aracnoz has done is an integrated solution, unless you really think that using MPC-HC as an external player and using a DSPlayer version of Kodi amounts to the same thing.

For a while, now, DSPlayer has been mostly a built in solution, with no need to download codecs or configuring it (unless one wanted to). The latest Isengard stable version clocks in at 65.2 MB, the latest DX11 Isengard 15.2 version stands at 62.7MB. And note that the DSPlayer release does not yank away DVDPlayer. It's there as a fallback if needed or even selectable as default player, leaving DSPlayer for special cases.

You say "someone needs to support DSPlayer for non technical users" and yet we already have this 222576 (thread) that stands as one of the most in-depth tutorials/guides on the web for madVR/DirectShow configuration. More in depth and user friendly, this needs to be said, than several portions of the Wiki (to which I contributed a single page, long ago, and which I don't want to downplay at all, considering it's gotten seriously better in the past few years).

I advised aracnoz to have a look at the recent VideoPlayer development that seemed to hold promise for a "binary addon" approach. He posted there. He was met with two or three replies that basically stated "no, never, not on this planet". This for a person that busted his ass working on a fork, kept in the open, with an approach that strived to maintain Kodi's approach of working everything through the GUI (actually, probably more than Kodi itself, considering there's stuff in the GUI now that in Kodi will quite surely stay on advancedsettings.xml). He was asked to provide clear examples of what DSPlayer offered more than DVDPlayer. He did that. And the *first* reply after that post was FernetMenta stating that he disliked forks because they did not provide a single line of code.

What do you think aracnoz was writing there for? To steal code and run away with his fork making millions of dollars? Is that why he kept all development in the open, accessibile and talked freely here? There's over 5,000 posts on DSPlayer threads in this forum, more than several of the skins devoted forums, yet nobody thought of asking aracnoz if he maybe wanted to have his own subforum to discuss his developments.

It also needs to be said: you can't go around claiming stuff like 15%, to then be corrected at 35% and then stating that it doesn't matter. Because when you then add that "dsplayer won't change a single thing for 65% to 85% of Kodi users" one might wonder about the other percentages displayed in Team Kodi's presentation. OS X and iOS sit nicely inside those percentages, for instance. All work done on those platforms won't change a single thing for 65% to 85% of Kodi users. And there's been a time when hardware accelerated video decoding was supported *just* on Linux. Maybe you weren't here then, I can't tell.

Finally, calling people fanboys is not the best attitude to maintain a civil tone in a discussion, you might want to refrain from doing that. Or you couldn't care less about this advice. Your call.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.
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Quote:After your post's content it was somewhat ironic, considering that you seem to care a great deal about people with Pentium 4/ GT210 setups, people with NUCs, people with Celeron 2955U (not stating that caring for them is wrong, just reiterating that making them stop work devoted to better quality is wrong).

^^ I don't see Windows XP in there. I mainly talk about stone age AMD cards without official drivers - which is btw. the biggest usergroup ranting vs the DX11 implementation (people that don't get any drivers by AMD anymore - but demand to get kodi support even on OS version where they don't have drivers). The named celeron 2955U is one of the most popular kodi devices we currently have (chromebox).

Quote:Finally, calling people fanboys is not the best attitude to maintain a civil tone in a discussion, you might want to refrain from doing that. Or you couldn't care less about this advice. Your call.
Fanboy: http://de.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fanboy

Quote:And there's been a time when hardware accelerated video decoding was supported *just* on Linux. Maybe you weren't here then, I can't tell.

Known. So - now that has changed and with all the ARM devices around which would not display a single video without it - we happily don't want to go back - do you. I also want to remind you that there was a time when the Personal Computer did not yet exist at all and people used video recoders and analog TV.

Could you summarize the message you wanted to send me, please - I honestly don't get the point.

Can you summarize your vision in some short sentences?
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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I think that aracnoz presented himself well, he worked well, he replied to questions and he was shot down with, in my opinion, bad manners.

I think that excluding developments because they affect a minority of users is counterintuitive when looking at percentages, which you seemed to want to do.

I think that, when you say that a minority has good hardware to run things better and then you state that you don't see the point in supporting stuff that runs better because it requires good hardware, it's counterintuitive to have a signature that points to *outdated hardware* and *decades old hardware" (it's there, in your sig, I find it disheartening that you choose to selectively read only the XP reference there) hampering development and innovation.

I think that calling DSPlayer an external player is ungenerous and I think that after all the work aracnoz has put into it, it deserved some better recognizement by Team Kodi. You are obviously free to disagree, I don't think it's objective or a given.

I think that mentioning the need for non-techie support while ignoring one of the most complete and user friendly user guides around is wrong.

I think that calling people fanboys is not a compliment and if you choose to go the urban dictionary way, be my guest. I think that it wasn't aracnoz that let something override his social graces, quite the opposite.

I also think that I wrote a clear post, but if there is the need to simplify, so be it. Here it is. Smile
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.
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(2015-11-25, 14:59)ashlar Wrote: I think that aracnoz presented himself well, he worked well, he replied to questions and he was shot down with, in my opinion, bad manners.

I think that excluding developments because they affect a minority of users is counterintuitive when looking at percentages, which you seemed to want to do.

I am interested in getting work done that profits most in a very compact time interval. As pointed out: 1 Windows dev and the rest of our 10 active devs all have a normal life - so powers need to be combined. If we were a company we could just drop every platform that has less than 20% users as an alternative?

Quote:I think that, when you say that a minority has good hardware to run things better and then you state that you don't see the point in supporting stuff that runs better because it requires good hardware, it's counterintuitive to have a signature that points to *outdated hardware* and *decades old hardware" (it's there, in your sig, I find it disheartening that you choose to selectively read only the XP reference there) hampering development and innovation.

Not true. As you can see I was one of the leading developers getting HEVC decoding implemented in kodi - I am highly interested in implementing new standards that benefit every one

Quote:I think that calling DSPlayer an external player is ungenerous and I think that after all the work aracnoz has put into it, it deserved some better recognizement by Team Kodi. You are obviously free to disagree, I don't think it's objective or a given.
Can you point out a single (!) commit that lead to making kodi itself (the core (!)) better - than I am very happy and feel thankful. But solving kodi issues in something external while seeing that kodi's core is starving and dieing without a single upstream support for our very few windows devs and on top sidetracking users in testing other stuff than the kodi integrated stuff - is something - I am absolutely not thankful - no.

Quote:I think that mentioning the need for non-techie support while ignoring one of the most complete and user friendly user guides around is wrong.

I think that calling people fanboys is not a compliment and if you choose to go the urban dictionary way, be my guest. I think that it wasn't aracnoz that let something override his social graces, quite the opposite.
See above - i am thankful for everything that keeps the kodi platform on windows alive, as you see we are cleaning up since multiple releases to get that big fat chunk of platform specific code back in line ... here help is required. It's not choosing kodi's UI / scapers and what else - and then trying to replace a complete part of kodi by something external that only breaks the project into part ...

Quote:I also think that I wrote a clear post, but if there is the need to simplify, so be it. Here it is. Smile

Again not sure about what you want. What is kodi's future?
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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Guys, can we get back on track with this thread then arguing if DSPlayer should or shouldn't be a part of Kodi. I'm going to refrain from providing my opinion.

Now we get a lot of people, especially lately with all the new comers now that DSPlayer has a user friendly setup process, posting in this thread saying "I have XYZ hardware what should my Madvr settings be?". Well I'm planning to put together a shared google spreadsheet of different hardware configurations that everyone has and their MadVR settings they're using for a specific video resolution and the screen resolution. Hopefully this will help new users develop a baseline configuration for Madvr, where they can then tweak and play with in order to squeeze out as much juice out of their setup as they can.

So how does everyone like this idea?

Here is where I'm at with the spreadsheet right now
Image
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Okay.

I just unsubscribed - I really wanted to understand how DSplayer can help kodi architecture and all users - but it seems there is no interest - as kodi does not matter at all - as long as the play button calls something else.
First decide what functions / features you expect from a system. Then decide for the hardware. Don't waste your money on crap.
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I've installed following instructions and are just using basic tweaks due to weak rig. I3 3225 (I believe, not at home now), win10 8gb ram and no gfx yet...
It looks really promising on my 100'' screen! Nod
But some mkv's doesn't start, the kodi interface just goes black for a second or so and then goes back to movie info.
Sometimes I get a message saying some files failed to play.
What to do?
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Kodi DSPlayer – DirectShow Player for Windows4.4347