2015-11-29, 23:38
I have been lurking on this thread for a while now, and I wanted to sign up to say thank you to both aracnoz and Team Kodi for all that work that went into the respective areas of the project – so first of all, thanks to everyone involved, I enjoy and appreciate your work.
My thoughts and opinions on the matter may not matter much as a new user here, but I wanted to share my experiences relating to this matter from a user perspective.
Until recently when Windows 10 started to come about, my HTPC had actually been on Windows Media Center 7 with MyMovies + MPC-HC & MadVR for several years. While Windows Media Center had its quirks, for the most part the WMC+MyMovies combo just worked. It was fast to spin up and pretty low maintenance.
Several years ago when I was setting up my HTPC I had tried XBMC/Kodi first. I wanted to love it because I love open source software, but at the time I felt like there were too many moving pieces to configure and understand, and that it was very hard to get it working the way I wanted it to; in comparison, I clicked a few prompts in Media Center and it just worked.
When news started to surface that Windows 10 would be discontinuing Media Center, I happily gave XBMC/Kodi another shot. Several years had passed and I was pleased to see that the project seemed to have come a long ways since I had last tried using it. I got my setup running fairly quickly, and moved to convert my entire HTPC over to Kodi. I then replaced my 2 media center extenders with 2 Raspberry Pi 2's running Kodi as well, and I’ve been happy since.
When spinning up Kodi I was very happy to find out about this Kodi DSPlayer build - as it meant I could pull MadVR in natively into Kodi instead of having to use external player integration w/ MPC-HC or others like I did with WMC. MadVR has a superb reputation for maximum quality - it has amazed me since the very first time I used it; I wanted to keep this on my main setup no matter what. Ironically, this meant that despite converting to Kodi, I couldn't ditch Windows on the HTPC and go to Linux - but I ended up being okay with that because MadVR is *that* good, and that valuable to me from a user perspective. This made for a much better user experience for me, as it was much more integrated and seamless.
Despite the MadVR component being closed source, I still got a huge upgrade in open source department with the rest of Kodi all being open source. This was pleasing to me as a developer, because if I encountered any bugs in the core platform, I could attempt to help fix them. While neither C++ or Python are my native languages, I hope that one day in the future I can aid in fixing some bugs if I encounter them as I become more familiar with Kodi, and over time, its code base. This is a much better situation to be in than I was with WMC7 - which had this stupid bug that drove me nuts occasionally for years, where occasionally clicking Live TV would for some unknown reason (happened extremely rarely) open the Recorded TV menu instead. I'd love to have been in a position to be able to fix that.
With that said, from a user perspective, it becomes a bit more tricky. While I’d love for everything I use to be 100% open source, I also want the best media watching experience I get, and the most things integrated as possible. Long term, I’d rather Kodi or another media center be able to be my 1 stop shop. I don’t want a Kodi HTPC and an Android/AppleTV/Roku/whatever in order to get all my services – I’d rather have one fully integrated piece of software that does everything right. In the case of Kodi DSPlayer + MadVR – it absolutely gave me the best video quality. For that reason, I installed MadVR for the same reason I’d install the binary Nvidia driver on Linux – there’s no doubt that it provides the best user experience if you seriously make use of all of its features. I wish MadVR was open source, but who am I to tell Madshi what to do with the code he writes in his free time – if competition motivates him, more power to him, as I’m still benefiting from the result as a user. Madshi is very engaged with his user base and regularly interacts with people on Doom9, and new release are frequent. I don’t have anything to complain about from a user perspective.
In the future, I’d love to be able to see support for things such as Sling TV, proper Netflix support, etc be possible in Kodi. This is where I think a binary plugin interface is not a bad idea long term for users. No matter how much we as developers and/or users may love open source, there will always be things that for whatever reason-- patents, licensing agreements, corporate policies or otherwise, cannot be open source. In this case, if I have to choose between having a Kodi and an additional commercial device(s), a Kodi and forfeiting key commercial services, or a Kodi and a binary plugin for a commercial service or renderer, I’d happily take option 3. It’s far better than being stuck on fully closed source platforms or devices.
This is where I feel like having a stable binary plugin interface would be to the benefit of the end users long term. It is far easier for companies to offer support for projects in such a manner, where they may not be in the position to open their source. Having binary plugin options does not mean that any default configuration has to be a binary blob – it just allows for more potential options for the end user which is a good thing. I hope that one day in the future, such an interface is possible, so that whether it is madVR, Netflix, or Sling TV, we may have a shot at getting real, supported integrations in Kodi.
While this may not happen even with a binary plugin interface, I would be inclined to think from my development experience that it would at least make it easier to consider supporting for a commercial company. Most companies don’t want to go anywhere near the GPL for various legal reasons, and a binary interface would provide them a way to provide support, versus none at all. Yes, this may not be philosophically ideal, but, I’d still take a mostly open source platform versus a proprietary one any day, if it gave me the best user experience.
Anyways, I apologize for the long wall of text. Thank you to everyone involved in making both Kodi and DSPlayer a reality. I’m sad to see aracnoz exit, but I would hope that in the future both sides of this debate can work out their differences and come to a mutual agreement that can benefit the end users who enjoy this functionality.
My thoughts and opinions on the matter may not matter much as a new user here, but I wanted to share my experiences relating to this matter from a user perspective.
Until recently when Windows 10 started to come about, my HTPC had actually been on Windows Media Center 7 with MyMovies + MPC-HC & MadVR for several years. While Windows Media Center had its quirks, for the most part the WMC+MyMovies combo just worked. It was fast to spin up and pretty low maintenance.
Several years ago when I was setting up my HTPC I had tried XBMC/Kodi first. I wanted to love it because I love open source software, but at the time I felt like there were too many moving pieces to configure and understand, and that it was very hard to get it working the way I wanted it to; in comparison, I clicked a few prompts in Media Center and it just worked.
When news started to surface that Windows 10 would be discontinuing Media Center, I happily gave XBMC/Kodi another shot. Several years had passed and I was pleased to see that the project seemed to have come a long ways since I had last tried using it. I got my setup running fairly quickly, and moved to convert my entire HTPC over to Kodi. I then replaced my 2 media center extenders with 2 Raspberry Pi 2's running Kodi as well, and I’ve been happy since.
When spinning up Kodi I was very happy to find out about this Kodi DSPlayer build - as it meant I could pull MadVR in natively into Kodi instead of having to use external player integration w/ MPC-HC or others like I did with WMC. MadVR has a superb reputation for maximum quality - it has amazed me since the very first time I used it; I wanted to keep this on my main setup no matter what. Ironically, this meant that despite converting to Kodi, I couldn't ditch Windows on the HTPC and go to Linux - but I ended up being okay with that because MadVR is *that* good, and that valuable to me from a user perspective. This made for a much better user experience for me, as it was much more integrated and seamless.
Despite the MadVR component being closed source, I still got a huge upgrade in open source department with the rest of Kodi all being open source. This was pleasing to me as a developer, because if I encountered any bugs in the core platform, I could attempt to help fix them. While neither C++ or Python are my native languages, I hope that one day in the future I can aid in fixing some bugs if I encounter them as I become more familiar with Kodi, and over time, its code base. This is a much better situation to be in than I was with WMC7 - which had this stupid bug that drove me nuts occasionally for years, where occasionally clicking Live TV would for some unknown reason (happened extremely rarely) open the Recorded TV menu instead. I'd love to have been in a position to be able to fix that.
With that said, from a user perspective, it becomes a bit more tricky. While I’d love for everything I use to be 100% open source, I also want the best media watching experience I get, and the most things integrated as possible. Long term, I’d rather Kodi or another media center be able to be my 1 stop shop. I don’t want a Kodi HTPC and an Android/AppleTV/Roku/whatever in order to get all my services – I’d rather have one fully integrated piece of software that does everything right. In the case of Kodi DSPlayer + MadVR – it absolutely gave me the best video quality. For that reason, I installed MadVR for the same reason I’d install the binary Nvidia driver on Linux – there’s no doubt that it provides the best user experience if you seriously make use of all of its features. I wish MadVR was open source, but who am I to tell Madshi what to do with the code he writes in his free time – if competition motivates him, more power to him, as I’m still benefiting from the result as a user. Madshi is very engaged with his user base and regularly interacts with people on Doom9, and new release are frequent. I don’t have anything to complain about from a user perspective.
In the future, I’d love to be able to see support for things such as Sling TV, proper Netflix support, etc be possible in Kodi. This is where I think a binary plugin interface is not a bad idea long term for users. No matter how much we as developers and/or users may love open source, there will always be things that for whatever reason-- patents, licensing agreements, corporate policies or otherwise, cannot be open source. In this case, if I have to choose between having a Kodi and an additional commercial device(s), a Kodi and forfeiting key commercial services, or a Kodi and a binary plugin for a commercial service or renderer, I’d happily take option 3. It’s far better than being stuck on fully closed source platforms or devices.
This is where I feel like having a stable binary plugin interface would be to the benefit of the end users long term. It is far easier for companies to offer support for projects in such a manner, where they may not be in the position to open their source. Having binary plugin options does not mean that any default configuration has to be a binary blob – it just allows for more potential options for the end user which is a good thing. I hope that one day in the future, such an interface is possible, so that whether it is madVR, Netflix, or Sling TV, we may have a shot at getting real, supported integrations in Kodi.
While this may not happen even with a binary plugin interface, I would be inclined to think from my development experience that it would at least make it easier to consider supporting for a commercial company. Most companies don’t want to go anywhere near the GPL for various legal reasons, and a binary interface would provide them a way to provide support, versus none at all. Yes, this may not be philosophically ideal, but, I’d still take a mostly open source platform versus a proprietary one any day, if it gave me the best user experience.
Anyways, I apologize for the long wall of text. Thank you to everyone involved in making both Kodi and DSPlayer a reality. I’m sad to see aracnoz exit, but I would hope that in the future both sides of this debate can work out their differences and come to a mutual agreement that can benefit the end users who enjoy this functionality.
