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START HERE - Pick the Right Kodi Box (updated March 2020)
i don't suppose you have any idea as to when Leia will be coming out.

I realise there are lots of secrecy etc about this but a clue would be be good
LG OLED C7, Marantz SR7010, Panasonic BD35, Logitech Elite, Virgin V6, Mission 752, Mission 75C, Wharfedall 9.0, BK XLS200 Mk 2, iPhone 6S, Synology 214Play, Wetek Play2 with LibreELEC 8.2.3, Mede8er MED600X3D, Amazon Fire Stick, Apple TV 4K, NowTV, Airport Extremes
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(2018-01-09, 10:56)JohnWB Wrote: i don't suppose you have any idea as to when Leia will be coming out.

I realise there are lots of secrecy etc about this but a clue would be be good
 There's no secrecy, they're really open about nightly builds and alpha/beta testing and anyone can get involved and help.  You can download Leia right now and use it.
Denon X6500H 7.1.4 -> LG OLED65C6P
Main: Odroid N2 CoreELEC
Other Devices: Apple TV 4K, RPi 4, NVIDIA Shield Pro (2017)
Retired devices: Zidoo X9S, Xiaomi Mi Box, All other RPi’s
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Currently looking replacement for my Raspberry Pi 3. Right now I don't have 4K HDR TV, but it's not very far away also. There are some devices between I can't decide...

MINIX NEO U9-H
+ Supports Dolby Atmos and DTS:X bitstreaming
- AMLogic S912 GPU driver libraries are not released and to me it seems that it's just fixed virtually by one developer. Maybe it will not be usable in future? Possibly I'm wrong here.

Apple TV 4K
+ Working refresh, resolution and colors pace switching
+ Netflix 4K HDR streaming. But probably future TV will have also this feature. Would be just nice to use all apps/features from one place.
- Doesn't bitstream Dolby Atmos and DTS:X. Apple have told that support for Atmos will be added later. But nobody knows that for sure.
- MrMC design. Sideloading Kodi is possible but seems it's not so well customized for 4K as MrMc Kodi fork.

NVIDIA Shield TV (2017)
+ Supports Dolby Atmos and DTS:X bitstreaming
+ Netflix 4K HDR streaming. But probably future TV will have also this feature. Would be just nice to use all apps/features from one place.
- Broken refresh, resolution and colors pace switching.
- Poor video upscaling quality.

Choices, choices, choices...
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You have a few errors...

Apple TV 4K:
- does not do auto resolution switching, it really does not need it because 1080p > 4K upscaled picture quality is good.
- set and forget, auto everything, let Apple's tvOS take care of refresh and colorspace switching for ALL Apps, tvOS system wide, not just Plex or MrMC (Kodi) Smile
- Dolby Vision streaming is superior to static HDR10 picture outputs on a compatible DV TV.

- MrMC (modded Kodi Jarvis) has limitations with self install Addons and you cannot install additional Skins. Already has about 6 built in Skins with more being added slowly. Also includes PVR Addons and Built in Kodi user interface configurable clients for Plex, Emby, MySQL and TrakTV. Honestly for solid NAS video streaming and TV viewing it does not feel like you miss out on much.

NVIDIA Shield:
- does auto Refresh switching in Plex/Kodi/SPMC only
- does auto Resolution switching in SPMC 17.6a2 only
- broken auto Colorspace switching Rec.709 (SDR) <--> BT.2020 (HDR) after auto Refresh switching.
- broken deinterlacing for OTA TV viewing with Kodi Krypton.

- you do get the Full Monty Kodi Krypton App release however with all the Addon and self install Skins - Bells and Whistles Smile

- no 5.1 audio from Netflix or Amazon Video & other DD+ streaming Apps unless you are HDMI connected to a DD+ audio receiver. Old Soundbar owners beware. Mi Box has exact same limitations.

- you need auto Refresh switching AND auto colorspace switching working if you are from countries with video content that plays back @ 25 / 50fps like Oz / N.Z / Euro / U.K. - sourced TV / IPTV, filmed for TV content / sports and want a hands off, set and forget - SDR / HDR Apps capable streaming media player.

Otherwise expect horrible video judder in Apps and also when you disable Plex / Kodi / SPMC auto refresh switching because of the previously mentioned colorspace switching issue.

For other Apps on the Shield you have to manually switch Android Settings - system resolution to 1080p / 2160p @ 50Hz for proper video sync, BUT then what about other Apps like Netflix, Amazon Video etc.. streaming at 23.976fps ?
Welcome to video sync-city HELL !



MINIX U9:
Running LE Kodi Krypton on the U9, set and forget as well with auto everything.
LE GPU video drivers optimised for a 60fps Kodi Graphic User Interface with No picture tearing.
GPU drivers have nothing to do with Hardware Video decoding on AMLogic devices, the co-processor VPU always handled all that and hardware video playback never had any issues.



Suggestion, see how well various Apps perform on a smart 4K HDR TV first because then you very likely will not have to worry about annoying Android refresh, resolution and colorspace limitations and issues. If they are OK supplement the smart TV with something like a Vero4K or AML S912 for hands off - mixed SDR / 4K HDR - Kodi Krypton use. You will have very few limitations then.

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I’m starting to think the perfect solution is an amlogic device with LE, and just use apps from your smart tv (if you have one) for 4K streaming. If you have a 4k TV, it’s most likely a smart tv with all the popular apps. If not get an Apple TV 4K.
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Just for information.
I'm looking for the most capable hardware (Best audio, 4K Video, HDR, ...)
I've been researching about using Intel NUC with Kodi as a HTPC, and i found technical details and specs. And here are the link for all NUC's.
And from the specs it seems that NUC6CAYS and NUC6CAYH HDMI doesn't support 192 kHz sample rates, nor 24-bit/96 kHz audio.
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(2018-01-10, 23:11)wrxtasy Wrote: NVIDIA Shield:
- does auto Refresh switching in Plex/Kodi/SPMC only
- does auto Resolution switching in SPMC 17.6a2 only
- broken auto Colorspace switching Rec.709 (SDR) <--> BT.2020 (HDR) after auto Refresh switching.
- broken deinterlacing for OTA TV viewing with Kodi Krypton.

Isn't it a case that rather than colour space switching being broken on the Shield TV, it simply isn't implemented in either Kodi/SPMC or the nVidia Android TV builds at the moment ?

The Shield TV lets you manually select between a fixed Rec 709 and Rec 2020 colour space output, and Kodi/SPMC will then refresh rate switch within this colour space (and apparently also resolution switch in newer SPMC builds).  I haven't checked - but I assume if you run your nVidia Shield TV in Rec 709 3840x2160 HDMI output then Rec 2020 Netflix/Amazon content isn't properly converted currently, and conversely if you run 3840x2160 Rec 2020 HDMI output then Rec 709 stuff isn't either?

Given that TVs themselves only have a single native colour space - which is effectively defined by their display primaries (isn't it?) - there has to be a colour space conversion at some point.  Colour space switching the video output lets the TV do it all, but it is equally possible to do a Rec 709 to Rec 2020 colour space conversion within an app (or the OS - which might be cleaner if implemented properly)? which would then avoid the need for output colour space switching? (We're already doing this for 601 content - though the conversion is easier as it is often assumed the primaries and EOTF/gamma are the same)

Note colour space switching is separate to HDR / SDR - though almost all HDR content we will find is going to be in Rec 2020 colour space (or one of the DCI-P3s within it?) - as Rec 2020 stuff can be SDR (or SDR-compatible HLG)
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Hey! Awesome thread, a lot of good information and user tips for picking the device most suited to your needs.

I do need your help a bit though. I want to replace my RPi3 running OSMC and few other services since it has Debian underneath.

I'm looking for something with 4K/HDR support (Netflix etc), auto resolution switching and best audio/video quality you can get in a reasonable price. Based on your suggestions I'm considering VERO 4K, MINIX NEO U9-H or something like Odroid C2. Beside media center functionality I need an actual Linux underneath so simplest would be VERO, but I've also read that you can dual boot MINIX and it's not a problem to get my hands dirty doing this so Smile Beside the actual performance/quality you also praise MINIX for build quality, so yeah, help (or other recommendations) are welcome Smile
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(2018-01-11, 14:51)noggin Wrote:
(2018-01-10, 23:11)wrxtasy Wrote: NVIDIA Shield:
- does auto Refresh switching in Plex/Kodi/SPMC only
- does auto Resolution switching in SPMC 17.6a2 only
- broken auto Colorspace switching Rec.709 (SDR) <--> BT.2020 (HDR) after auto Refresh switching.
- broken deinterlacing for OTA TV viewing with Kodi Krypton.

Isn't it a case that rather than colour space switching being broken on the Shield TV, it simply isn't implemented in either Kodi/SPMC or the nVidia

Direct from the Horse's mouth (Koying) so to speak, tenth reply from bottom:
https://github.com/koying/SPMC/issues/1060

Quote:I don't say it's good Wink
I just say app developers have zero control on the colorspace, so I cannot change it from within spmc/kodi.

The existing Android API only allows to select "modes", which only reference resolution + refreshrate: https://developer.android.com/reference/....Mode.html

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(2018-01-11, 17:53)bMind Wrote: I'm looking for something with 4K/HDR support (Netflix etc), auto resolution switching and best audio/video quality you can get in a reasonable price. Based on your suggestions I'm considering VERO 4K, MINIX NEO U9-H or something like Odroid C2. Beside media center functionality I need an actual Linux underneath so simplest would be VERO, but I've also read that you can dual boot MINIX and it's not a problem to get my hands dirty doing this so Smile Beside the actual performance/quality you also praise MINIX for build quality, so yeah, help (or other recommendations) are welcome Smile
You will not find a Linux box with 4K HDR Netflix support. The closest you will get is the Apple TV 4K that has nearly auto everything, minus Dolby Atmos and DTS:X
See the post #2344 above.

Linux underneath and HDR Kodi only = Vero 4K = NO 4K HDR Netflix
C2 = AMLogic S905 = no HDR support at all
MINIX U9 = no 4K HDR Netflix, only 4K HDR LibreELEC Kodi / Android Kodi & 1080p Netflix with an unofficial ATV ROM

Best build quality = Apple TV 4K, giving you correct HDR colorspace switching, set and forget virtually everything and 4K HDR10 / DolbyVision Apps support. Supplement it with a working 4K HDR - Vero / LibreELEC - Kodi Krypton box if you want all the Krypton Addons, Skins - Bells and whistles.

Don't try and do everything with the one device, otherwise be prepared to compromise and annoyingly, continually fiddle with device and App settings and implement unsatisfactory workarounds.

And you missed the most important part of the lot for any media player:
FIRMWARE !

Best bug fixing Firmware updates, tweaks and support (almost on a monthly basis) comes from the OSMC / Vero guys and Apple, closely followed by LibreELEC.

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Basically, the difference between kodi/android and kodi/LE is just the auto res (minix u9)?
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LE on U9 also adds:

- auto resolution switching (both Android Kodi and LE Kodi on U9 do auto refresh switching)
- working and reliable deinterlacing for Krypton OTA TV and interlaced video content viewing.
- a inbuilt SAMBA (SMB) server for sharing Plug n Play connected HDD's over a home network. Ones you can also write to easily.
- you can add a TVHeadend server.
- not sure what is going on when reading the MINIX forums with Android Kodi, but DTS audio passthrough definitely works when using LE

Also beware, there are wake from sleep annoyances with the wireless MINIX A3 lite remote. Again see the MINIX U9 forum for the relevant thread.
The previous A2 lite remote has No such problems and is actually preferred by a number of people.

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I do confirm Minix A2 lite is wonderfull.
I have 2 since 3 days, I am just seeking for a way to wake-up and power off my odroid C2 with it. Not sure this is achievable but it is not a big deal
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(2018-01-11, 22:46)wrxtasy Wrote: You will not find a Linux box with 4K HDR Netflix support. The closest you will get is the Apple TV 4K that has nearly auto everything, minus Dolby Atmos and DTS:X
See the post #2344 above.

Linux underneath and HDR Kodi only = Vero 4K = NO 4K HDR Netflix
C2 = AMLogic S905 = no HDR support at all
MINIX U9 = no 4K HDR Netflix, only 4K HDR LibreELEC Kodi / Android Kodi & 1080p Netflix with an unofficial ATV ROM

Best build quality = Apple TV 4K, giving you correct HDR colorspace switching, set and forget virtually everything and 4K HDR10 / DolbyVision Apps support. Supplement it with a working 4K HDR - Vero / LibreELEC - Kodi Krypton box if you want all the Krypton Addons, Skins - Bells and whistles.

Don't try and do everything with the one device, otherwise be prepared to compromise and annoyingly, continually fiddle with device and App settings and implement unsatisfactory workarounds.

And you missed the most important part of the lot for any media player:
FIRMWARE !

Best bug fixing Firmware updates, tweaks and support (almost on a monthly basis) comes from the OSMC / Vero guys and Apple, closely followed by LibreELEC. 
Thanks wrxtasy!

Yeah, you might be right, all-in-one is probably not a good idea, there are always shortcomings of this kind of a solution. Will MINIX U9 or Vero handle 4K HDR content with proper color/resolution switching, and for example (according to first page post) Nvidia Shield will be there co add Netflix 4K HDR support? Or you really recommend Apple TV 4K over this kind of a solution. I'm kinda hesitant since I don't have any device from the Apple universe Wink
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I am using a Wetek Play2, with the latest LibreELEC,  playing Moviies (up to 30g and with full HD sound) and TV programs (various including x264 and x265) from a Synology NAS which works very well but is not very user friendly (my wife).

I am intending toget a 4K TV soon so I would be playing various 4K movies

What would i gain / loose moving to the Apple TV 4K with MrMC and would it be better than the Dune 4K or some of the other available.

The price would not be an issue (up to £150 -£200 ish) as long as what ever I get can play the videos with top quality vision and sound and is as easy to use as my old Mede8er 600.
LG OLED C7, Marantz SR7010, Panasonic BD35, Logitech Elite, Virgin V6, Mission 752, Mission 75C, Wharfedall 9.0, BK XLS200 Mk 2, iPhone 6S, Synology 214Play, Wetek Play2 with LibreELEC 8.2.3, Mede8er MED600X3D, Amazon Fire Stick, Apple TV 4K, NowTV, Airport Extremes
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