[Ned Scott]

I think we have a beelink troll-employee here. or we have one of those those cheapo ebay sellers..

I think we have another wetek troll employee here
This is a budget amlogic devices topic, wetek is not in the budget category. Stay on topic.

I was hired by WeTek in late January, and was told of the job offer in December 2015. Before that, the idea of working for WeTek had never entered my head. Feel free to look at my posting history where my views have not changed. Also look at all of my posts since being employed by WeTek, where I still recommend other brands and products. I don't get paid to defend wetek or promote their products. I get paid for providing wetek user support through official wetek support channels. (and occasionally post some stuff to their blog, provide feedback on written content so that it sounds more natural since English is my native language, being an admin at the wetek forum, and testing various things for developers with Kodi and US-specific Android apps).

You know who else I used to stand up for (before their company kind of imploded, or something like that)? Pivos. They were the original manufacturers of the very first Kodi (then XBMC) Android box. It was also using amlogic, too. They hired two Team XBMC developers and drastically accelerated the Android port, and it could be reasonably argued that without them there might not have been an Android port. Likewise, they had a box with decent specs that was around $100 USD, and there were clones out the wazu that were much cheaper (including the $35 price range that we're talking about now). I was never employed by Pivos, I had nothing to do with them, and I said all of the same things about them. They had a better product, they paid licensing fees, they didn't go with the lowest bidder for manufacturing, they had a real support staff and real developers working for them, etc.

My reputation speaks for itself (and so does stefansaraev's reputation, for that matter). It is fair to question my objectivity and possible conflicts of interest, since no one should just assume everyone out there is "doing the right hing", but you are really going over the line.

No, we're not going to be as trusting of the new accounts with only a few dozen posts. You don't even have a reputation, good or bad, on this forum. So yeah, when you come out attacking people and saying that cheap shit is just as good as what WeTek or Minix or Google puts out, then we're probably going to think you're a shill.

[wrxtasy]

The other option a Odroid C2 is hideously expensive for Kodi usage once you add all the parts up, over priced EMMC modules for one....on paper it's the exact same spec as a cheap android box S905, 2Gb Ram, on the board...everything else will cost more 16GB EMMC, power supply WiFi, Case, SD Card ...etc....Do the math .. it works out out to 4 times the cost of an Android box wth the same spec, in a neater one box solution. Considering the android boxes can run LibreElec and openelec in dualboot with android...wheres the benefit in building a Odroid C2 in kit form spending 4 x the cash ?

Let get a few facts out:

• 2.4 GHz WiFi on these cheap Android boxes should be considered useless in a crowded RF Environment. I can kill any video streaming dead just by starting a Microwave oven in the Kitchen, that operates at 2.45GHz.
  I would not use 2.4GHz WiFi if you gave it too me for free, Ethernet only thanks for reliable streaming.
  
• CSR 4.0 BT dongles can be had for next to nothing. I think I payed $3 for mine a while back.
  
• Unless you are Flashing LibreELEC / OpenELEC to eMMC you are not going to notice any difference between AML S905 platforms when running LE/OE Kodi from a SD card. No dual boot then of course.
  Even then, day to day, the Kodi usability differences are pretty minimal if you use a decent micro SDHC like a Samsung EVO+ or Sandisk Class 10 UHS-1.
  
• A C2 comes with 4xUSB2.0 and 40pin GPIOs + 7pin I2S, its a far more flexible device than a cheap Android Box.
  
• You also get properly engineered hardware that includes a quality, reliable power supply.
  
• What about running a fully fledged Ubuntu distro or many others on a cheap Android box ?
  
• Can I embed a Android Box into my project to run a cheap server farm like the C2. I see a bunch of people doing this as well as using the C2 in a wide variety of projects.
  
• The C2 has a far more active Multi image development forum than any S905 AML device I've seen. Its been the heart of the AML S905 LibreELEC project.
  
• How about using your own XBOX, MCE or self programmable IR remote with these Android boxes, using Lirc ?
  I can easily custom programmed my own spare Sony quality remote with LE use on the C2.

Cheap Android AML devices vs the C2 really are catering to different users with different needs and wants.
The C2 really is more of a direct competitor to the RPi3. Particularly in the Linux / Kodi development space.

---

This is a budget amlogic devices topic, wetek is not in the budget category. Stay on topic.

We are on topic...the WeTek Hub is listed on Page #1 of this very thread, maybe you "conveniently" missed that !

As there has been no definition of "Budget" I will say around $100 or less retail (exc. shipping, taxes) would be considered budget for a bunch of people.
WeTek I believe consider the Hub as their budget AML S905 box too.
If users need proper DRM + HDCP for HD Netflix + more for video streaming and Audio Licences in Android, Proper Support and Quality Software then yes you do have to pay extra. This sort of stuff cost money last time I looked.

Others don't need HD Netflix or proper Audio or Software support in Android and are more of the DIY kind and like to tinker. Well then a cheap AML Android device may be fine for them then too, even if a bunch of features don't work properly. Its High Risk vs Low Price.

If Newbie users are too lazy to even do basic research and want to be spoon fed all the time then they deserve what they end up with.

Thorough Hardware reviews, cutting through all the bullshit and including nearly all the gotchas are far more valuable to most users in the end than gambling with unknown Hardware and listening to Spin from a bunch of marketing rubbish. Emanating from Pirate box Android sellers.

Peace

[melhemk]

• 2.4 GHz WiFi on these cheap Android boxes should be considered useless in a crowded RF Environment. I can kill any video streaming dead just by starting a Microwave oven in the Kitchen, that operates at 2.45GHz.
  I would not use 2.4GHz WiFi if you gave it too me for free, Ethernet only thanks for reliable streaming.
  .

Can you please move your router and/or Kodi box from the top of the microwave!!

No but seriously Microwaves are not supposed to do that, while they can affect the performance of WiFi 2.45GHz, they should not "kill any video streaming" since I suppose that usual WiFi devices (router, Kodi box...etc) are not in the kitchen, if you are serious and not exaggerating, I would suggest you to look into getting a new oven or at least check the grounding in your house.
If my microwave oven leaks that much of RF radiation, I think I will be more worried about other things than WiFi performance

Edit: typo.

[Draghmar]

[...] since I suppose that usual WiFi devices (router, Kodi box...etc) are not in the kitchen[...]

That depends on the flat you're living in. For example I have one bedroom and one living room that has also kitchen in it. So if I would have microwave it would interfere with WiFi.

[wrxtasy]

Apple Extreme Router (5th gen) > 2.4GHz WiFi usb receiver (less than 30cm away)

Quality Sharp Microwave oven, behind a brick wall in the kitchen some 15m away.
Yes stops video streaming dead in its tracks, even with the largest buffer possible.

Here you go, for another few articles on this WiFi issue:
Why Does Running My Microwave Kill My Wi-Fi Connectivity ?
WiFi frozen? Blame the microwave oven

I would imagine my Microwave oven does not "Perfectly Shield" all ionising radiation and a tiny part manages to leak out and bounce around the internal brick walls of my Apartment.
I don't stand in front of it for lengthy periods so am not concerned.

The point is I would not be relying on 2.4GHz WiFi for relievable video streaming full stop.
To much chance of interference these days, especially if living in an Apartment complex with a crowded RF environment all around.

[melhemk]

Apple Extreme Router (5th gen) > 2.4GHz WiFi usb receiver (less than 30cm away)

Microwave oven, behind a brick wall in the kitchen some 15m away.
Yes stops video streaming dead in its tracks, even with the largest buffer possible.

The point is I would not be relying on 2.4GHz WiFi for relievable video streaming full stop.
To much chance of interference these days, especially if living in an Apartment complex with a crowded RF environment all around.

Here you go, for another article on this WiFi issue:
Why Does Running My Microwave Kill My Wi-Fi Connectivity ?

I don't rely on internet articles, I rely on whitepapers, and believe me I have read more than enough on WiFi and Microwave Radiation during my studies and my job.
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying you are wrong or anything, in fact you are very right in the issue of 2.45GHz being crowded, after all that's one of the reasons they made the 5GHz.
However I must say you now make me even more concerned if the oven is 15 meters behind a brickwall, and still radiates enough RF to kill a WiFi connection.
Anyway this is off-topic, I would be more than happy to continue it in another thread or PM.

[wrxtasy]

Just reporting what I and others have observed. This is an Open Plan Kitchen, living area with Microwave in an Alcove.

Solution was to go Apple Extreme MIMO Dual Band b/g/n/ plus an Apple Express repeater used in the far end of Apartment.
That solved all problems immediately.

[danfloss]

I don't wish to be involved in any name calling but on a general note this is what comes from the so called 'free market' Products are made in the countries which have the cheapest labour and care not a jot about the environment or workers rights. Its actually spilting hairs to argue over which chinese company is treating their workers better, when none are treating them in what would be an exceptable manner in Europe or USA. Theres is a good argument for having these products built in the west but unless the 'free market' is curtailed such a brave company will go bust in no time

I'm sorry, but "splitting hairs" is simply not true. This is my whole point. Assuming that every factory is under the worse conditions "because china" is ignorant. China is slowly (very slowly..) getting it's act together, and attitudes like this really don't help.

Even if you don't care about the human factor, the cheaper factories also use sub-par parts, like older revisions of the S905 SOC, for example. Or sub-par components like resisters and voltage regulates. Some even use dangerous glues and chemicals that don't pass most western country standards. It's not all the same thing.

I think you are making my point Ned. I spent two months in China last year visiting daughter, in the place she worked (software) they had engineers actually living in the office, i can only imagine what happens in factories supplying these boxes. I do care deeply about the human factor as i am human. I could go on to list all the benefits that these workers don't have but I'm sure you know it all to well

[gsmtech]

• 2.4 GHz WiFi on these cheap Android boxes should be considered useless in a crowded RF Environment. I can kill any video streaming dead just by starting a Microwave oven in the Kitchen, that operates at 2.45GHz.
  I would not use 2.4GHz WiFi if you gave it too me for free, Ethernet only thanks for reliable streaming.
  .

Can you please move your router and/or Kodi box from the top of the microwave!!

No but seriously Microwaves are not supposed to do that, while they can affect the performance of WiFi 2.45GHz, they should not "kill any video streaming" since I suppose that usual WiFi devices (router, Kodi box...etc) are not in the kitchen, if you are serious and not exaggerating, I would suggest you to look into getting a new oven or at least check the grounding in your house.
If my microwave oven leaks that much of RF radiation, I think I will be more worried about other things than WiFi performance

Edit: typo.

To add to this several cheap devices have dual band 2.5/5 ghz WiFi onboard, the MiniMX V1 that I have has a dual band 2.4/5ghz WiFi chipset. For some stange reason the newer MiniMX III only has 2.4ghz WiFi.

The new budget S912 devices have 2.4/5/ghz WiFi and AC WiFi, namely the Beelink GT1 which has gone up for presale on gerarbest currently at 56 dollars on promo as reported over at CNX Software ! However as the S912 benchmarks I've seen so far from other boxes look pretty poor and theres no proper support or reviews/testing thatb i've seen for Kodi under android 6.0 I would consider this a major risk right now to purchase a S912 device, unless you fancy a gamble and a tinker...

[wrxtasy]

Yes Dual Band AC WiFi even better like on the WeTek Hub as well, before you get into the Dual Band b/g/n 2x2 MIMO WiFi devices like the Amazon FireTV/Stick , the Dual Band AC 2x2 MIMO S905 MINIX U1 and the AC 3x MIMO nVIDIA Shield and FireTV2.

Strong WiFi makes sense for the Shield and FireTV2 if your WiFi streaming (HDR10 Shield) 2160p HEVC content.

[gsmtech]

The other option a Odroid C2 is hideously expensive for Kodi usage once you add all the parts up, over priced EMMC modules for one....on paper it's the exact same spec as a cheap android box S905, 2Gb Ram, on the board...everything else will cost more 16GB EMMC, power supply WiFi, Case, SD Card ...etc....Do the math .. it works out out to 4 times the cost of an Android box wth the same spec, in a neater one box solution. Considering the android boxes can run LibreElec and openelec in dualboot with android...wheres the benefit in building a Odroid C2 in kit form spending 4 x the cash ?

Let get a few facts out:

• 2.4 GHz WiFi on these cheap Android boxes should be considered useless in a crowded RF Environment. I can kill any video streaming dead just by starting a Microwave oven in the Kitchen, that operates at 2.45GHz.
  I would not use 2.4GHz WiFi if you gave it too me for free, Ethernet only thanks for reliable streaming.
  
• CSR 4.0 BT dongles can be had for next to nothing. I think I payed $3 for mine a while back.
  
• Unless you are Flashing LibreELEC / OpenELEC to eMMC you are not going to notice any difference between AML S905 platforms when running LE/OE Kodi from a SD card. No dual boot then of course.
  Even then, day to day, the Kodi usability differences are pretty minimal if you use a decent micro SDHC like a Samsung EVO+ or Sandisk Class 10 UHS-1.
  
• A C2 comes with 4xUSB2.0 and 40pin GPIOs + 7pin I2S, its a far more flexible device than a cheap Android Box.
  
• You also get properly engineered hardware that includes a quality, reliable power supply.
  
• What about running a fully fledged Ubuntu distro or many others on a cheap Android box ?
  
• Can I embed a Android Box into my project to run a cheap server farm like the C2. I see a bunch of people doing this as well as using the C2 in a wide variety of projects.
  
• The C2 has a far more active Multi image development forum than any S905 AML device I've seen. Its been the heart of the AML S905 LibreELEC project.
  
• How about using your own XBOX, MCE or self programmable IR remote with these Android boxes, using Lirc ?
  I can easily custom programmed my own spare Sony quality remote with LE use on the C2.

Cheap Android AML devices vs the C2 really are catering to different users with different needs and wants.
The C2 really is more of a direct competitor to the RPi3. Particularly in the Linux / Kodi development space.

---

This is a budget amlogic devices topic, wetek is not in the budget category. Stay on topic.

We are on topic...the WeTek Hub is listed on Page #1 of this very thread, maybe you "conveniently" missed that !

As there has been no definition of "Budget" I will say around $100 or less retail (exc. shipping, taxes) would be considered budget for a bunch of people.
WeTek I believe consider the Hub as their budget AML S905 box too.
If users need proper DRM + HDCP for HD Netflix + more for video streaming and Audio Licences in Android, Proper Support and Quality Software then yes you do have to pay extra. This sort of stuff cost money last time I looked.

Others don't need HD Netflix or proper Audio or Software support in Android and are more of the DIY kind and like to tinker. Well then a cheap AML Android device may be fine for them then too, even if a bunch of features don't work properly. Its High Risk vs Low Price.

If Newbie users are too lazy to even do basic research and want to be spoon fed all the time then they deserve what they end up with.

Thorough Hardware reviews, cutting through all the bullshit and including nearly all the gotchas are far more valuable to most users in the end than gambling with unknown Hardware and listening to Spin from a bunch of marketing rubbish. Emanating from Pirate box Android sellers.

Peace

These specs for $100 USD (wetek Hub) are rubbish considering $40 USD elsewhere gets you the Same SOC double the RAM and double the EMMC flash, this is scrimping on hardware, if this had been 2GB RAM and 16Gb Flash with the added features that DRM etc brings the extra cost can be explained somewhat, not with half the RAM and storage though :

RAM Memory: 1 GB DDR III
Flash memory: 8 GB eMMC

[ChristianTroy]

ram will cost nothing nowadays, if it has been kept down it's not for price speculation, actually if you look at hub's board you will see it is very "busy" and if the space would have allowed, it would have had 2gb on board; we try to do our best, but for the miracles it will take a bit longer...

[wrxtasy]

Tech specs all secondary for any AML Kodi device when the basics of AC3 & DTS passthrough and 23.976fps properly synced video playback (amcodec enabled) do not work properly in Android Kodi. These are Android devices after all. Refresh switching and black video playback screens is not acceptable.

PVR Client - deinterlaced TV is also a core function of Kodi an AML, as it has excellent deinterlacing. That is why amcodec needs to be enabled, without stuffing about with settings all the time enabling and disabling amcodec hardware acceleration.

So tell us which Boxes you have mentioned can do ALL these ?
You know just the Android Kodi basics nothing special really.

You are not informing users of any limitations at all for these devices, so they can make an informed choice here and now just parroting Tech Specs, which people get very tired of reading. Sorry but your posts are now descending into complete irrelevance unless you provide detailed info.

[Draghmar]

These specs for $100 USD (wetek Hub) are rubbish considering $40 USD elsewhere gets you the Same SOC double the RAM and double the EMMC flash, this is scrimping on hardware, if this had been 2GB RAM and 16Gb Flash with the added features that DRM etc brings the extra cost can be explained somewhat, not with half the RAM and storage though :

RAM Memory: 1 GB DDR III
Flash memory: 8 GB eMMC

I really don't understand why you're going with this paper comparisons...I've already gave some broad examples of this way of thinking and why it's wrong.
But let's try another one. More precise one. Mechanical tools like screwdriver or drill.
There are very expensive ones and very cheap (and I mean really cheap). Both made from steel. And yet if you buy some cheap Chinese one you'll find soon enough that they are mostly garbage that can be used few times at most (some can break while using for the first time). `Impossible` some say! The specs were the same! How can it be?! But this is true and anyone using some tools can easily confirm that. I can for example - that's why I won't buy cheap drill again (or any other tools for that matter).

Example like this can be found in any aspects of life. That's why I told you to always buy using your head.

There many details that are often omitted in specs (in many cases intentionally) that changes the final price and quality.

[gsmtech]

These specs for $100 USD (wetek Hub) are rubbish considering $40 USD elsewhere gets you the Same SOC double the RAM and double the EMMC flash, this is scrimping on hardware, if this had been 2GB RAM and 16Gb Flash with the added features that DRM etc brings the extra cost can be explained somewhat, not with half the RAM and storage though :

RAM Memory: 1 GB DDR III
Flash memory: 8 GB eMMC

I really don't understand why you're going with this paper comparisons...I've already gave some broad examples of this way of thinking and why it's wrong.
But let's try another one. More precise one. Mechanical tools like screwdriver or drill.
There are very expensive ones and very cheap (and I mean really cheap). Both made from steel. And yet if you buy some cheap Chinese one you'll find soon enough that they are mostly garbage that can be used few times at most (some can break while using for the first time). `Impossible` some say! The specs were the same! How can it be?! But this is true and anyone using some tools can easily confirm that. I can for example - that's why I won't buy cheap drill again (or any other tools for that matter).

Example like this can be found in any aspects of life. That's why I told you to always buy using your head.

There many details that are often omitted in specs (in many cases intentionally) that changes the final price and quality.

Im not talking about quality of components or build quality. Im talking about capacity of memory and flash. If you spend $100 USD you should at elast expect 2Gb RAM and 16Gb flash, cost difference in bulk in minmal, If this capacity is devices available at 40 USD and even in that the manufactucturers and retailers are making profit...