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ODROID C2 S905 2GB RAM HDMI 2.0 $46
(2016-04-15, 10:54)rajalanun Wrote: does the pixellation issues happened randomly at c2, or at fixed scene/frame? i asked cuz im currently converting all my hi10p (anime mostly) collection to hevc main 10

im considering wetek play2, but not sure when it will be released...so im looking at odroid c2
Just be aware 10-bit 1080p HEVC is perfectly fine as is any 23.976fps 2160p main 10 HEVC I find over on the Kodi Video Samples page from here:
http://demo-uhd3d.com/

If you were planning on watching 2160p main 10 SAT-TV content I would wait for the S905 Revision C in the WeTek Boxes.

For the current state of play with Refresh Switching and 24p video sync on the AML S905 Kernel click my sticky link below.
The big one is 5.1 DD/AC3 Audio passthrough is currently not working.

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(2016-04-15, 05:39)wrxtasy Wrote: Not seeing the pixellation issue with regular Progressive 2160p 10bit HEVC, it does show up on some 2160p 10 bit Interlaced Satellite TV test clips I have with the C2. Something to do with B Frames and motion I have been told if my memory is correct.

There is no 2160p interlaced standard... The clue is in the p of 2160p (the p stands for progressive Wink )

If it is 2160lines then it is progressive. There is no interlaced 2160 line standard AIUI.

At one point H265/HEVC was going to be entirely progressive - but when it became clear how efficient it was, it became clear that there were real benefits to introducing it for current and close-to-launch platforms that were still going to use SD and HD interlaced formats, so interlacing was added. However unlike H264/AVC I believe there isn't the same amount of interlaced optimisation (MBAFF, PAFF etc.) and instead the two fields are effectively encoded as two successive half-res progressive frames? (I believe this toolset is also in AVC but once PAFF and MBAFF arrived the benefits of them with H264 were enough to make them worth using?)

If you have a 2160p clip with fluid motion it is likely to be 2160/50p or 2160/59.94p which are the two current UHD1 implementations used for broadcast TV (BT Sport in the UK use 2160/50p for their '4K' IPTV network which launched last year and carries high quality live Premiere League Football coverage. The US Masters in '4K' on DirecTV in the US is 2160/59.94p - distributed as both satellite and IP I believe ?) If the clip has 'film look' motion it is likely to be 2160/23.976p or 24p or 2160/25p. (I suspect, as with HD, 29.97p/30p content will be unusual)
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(2016-04-15, 11:09)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2016-04-15, 10:54)rajalanun Wrote: does the pixellation issues happened randomly at c2, or at fixed scene/frame? i asked cuz im currently converting all my hi10p (anime mostly) collection to hevc main 10

im considering wetek play2, but not sure when it will be released...so im looking at odroid c2
Just be aware 10-bit 1080p HEVC is perfectly fine as is any 23.976fps 2160p main 10 HEVC I find over on the Kodi Video Samples page from here:
http://demo-uhd3d.com/

If you were planning on watching 2160p main 10 SAT-TV content I would wait for the S905 Revision C in the WeTek Boxes.

For the current state of play with Refresh Switching and 24p video sync on the AML S905 Kernel click my sticky link below.
The big one is 5.1 DD/AC3 Audio passthrough is currently not working.
thank you for the note! my media files mostly 720p or 1080p hevc 10bit , frame should be around that =)
Reply
(2016-04-15, 10:21)wrxtasy Wrote: My Mediainfo inspection proggy, looks like it not giving enough metadata detail to tell.
I assumed it was interlaced, but I now suspect Progessive. Whatever uses less Transmission Bandwidth I would imagine..

Err... No. There is no option to use interlaced for 2160 content - the standards are progressive only.

AIUI the bandwidth benefits for interlacing were mainly in the production chain, where signals are uncompressed (or very lightly compressed). When we started with HD, handling 1080/50i 4:2:2 content required >800Mbs bitrates to be used (higher for live signals as they have H+V blanking). That would have doubled to >1.6Mbs for 1080/50p. In the mid-90s when first gen digital HD standards were being standardised, that difference was huge. This is why we ended up with 720/50p and 1080/50i (and 1080/25p in production) for our dominant HD production standards. This isn't just a 'bandwidth for the signal problem', it's processing issue too. Cameras, Switchers, Routers all needed to cope with twice the data rate. This wasn't feasible. In reality it took many, many years for 1080/50p to become a practical production standard (even when cameras arrived that would output 1080/50p, you had to connect two BNCs to the side of the camera, as what came down the main camera fibre or triax to the control room was still 1080/50i or 720/50p due to bandwidth constraints on the cables that connected the camera head to the camera control unit)

However for transmission the difference between 1080/50i and 1080/50p in bandwidth terms is actually far less than double. The EBU here (figures for HEVC) suggest somewhere between 10% more required for 1080/50p than 720/50p, and with older encoders something like 20% for 1080/50p instead of 1080/50i. (So encoder quality does play an issue - but losing interlace is also a very real aim - as deinterlacing is processor intensive, and nothing much more than guesstimation as you are trying to recreate information that was thrown away. The spectrum folding of vertical and temporal resolution that interlacing introduces is also far from ideal)

So actually it was the production systems that dictated the choice of 1080/50i rather than 1080/50p NOT the encoder efficiency. The reality is that if we'd been able to produce 1080/50p content in the 90s, we'd have started broadcasting 1080/50p almost certainly. Interlacing is really a legacy system designed to solve the problem of bandwidth reduction in the uncompressed and analogue domains.

This may be interesting reading : https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/techreports/tr036.pdf It's a recent EBU publication looking at how Europe will cope with the loss of the 700MHz TV band (after already losing the 800MHz one), and discusses the efficiency gains of H264/AVC and H265/HEVC over MPEG2, and also the benefits gained by working VBR with a statmuxing system (where bandwidth is dynamically shared between services based on coding needs for delivering similar levels of quality across your channels. Fixed bitrate doesn't deliver fixed quality)

Also - there is some interesting discussion to have about higher frame rates not requiring massively more bandwidth to encode either. You don't need twice the bandwidth to encode 1080/50p as you do for 1080/25p in H264 or H265 (assuming you aren't using Intra frame coding where every frame is coded separately - and that approach is never used for broadcasting to the consumer). Because capturing frames at twice the frame rate captures motion in a more detailed manner (you have twice the data set from which to track motion), it assists the encoders in tracking vectors of the various image elements (also there can be less motion blur on each frame too, which makes block matching more effective). If you can do this, you can improve picture quality or reduce bitrate.
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Have tried out the new C2 LibreElec build. Some big advances. Major progress.

The CEC integration is very good (with AVR control and remote source switching, power on/off commands etc.) As good as the RPi implementation now I'd say.

Drivers for the onboard IR receiver are implemented and by default it is configured for the Hardkernel IR remote. It's a bit sluggish though.

The frame rate switching and 2160/50p and 59.94p support is good, allowing me to play 2160/59.94p HEVC content, and 2160/50p HEVC content at 2160p. (Downscaling to 1080p causes judder)

Upscaling 576/50i and 1080/50i content to 2160/50p is not handled correctly. It appears to be deinterlaced to 25p not 50p (there isn't combing but the motion is 1x not 2x) Switching to 1080/50p output solves that, but it means you can't run at a fixed output resolution. (Maybe fritsch's 'only switch to 2160p for 2160p content' logic might be useful unless this is a quick fix?)

SD H264 576/50i 16:9 Live TV content appears not to be properly scaled to 16:9 and is squashed (pillar boxed as if it is 1:1 aspect ratio pixels displayed in a 1204x576 canvas?(. SD MPEG2 576/50i 16:9 Live TV initially looks the same but quickly (within a few frames) switches to the correct aspect ratio.

No Passthrough audio yet, so stuck at PCM 2.0.

GUI is rendered fluidly.
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Your wealth of TV and video standard knowledge blows us away Noggin !
It is good when trying to bug bust new Hardware and massage it all into decent shape.

(2016-04-15, 20:02)noggin Wrote: SD H264 576/50i 16:9 Live TV content appears not to be properly scaled to 16:9 and is squashed (pillar boxed as if it is 1:1 aspect ratio pixels displayed in a 1204x576 canvas?(. SD MPEG2 576/50i 16:9 Live TV initially looks the same but quickly (within a few frames) switches to the correct aspect ratio.
I've actually noticed this on all my AML devices with one particular H264 576/50i TV channel I watch.
I use the video setting in Kodi to fix it:
Settings > Video > Playback > Display 4:3 Video as Stretch 16:9

At the moment the preferred Mode 1 Policy for Frame Rate Automation (fractional video output modes 23.976/29.97/59.94) when combined with refresh switching is broken. Result is a black screen. The S8xx Kernel was actually patched by Codesnake to fix this issues in the S8xx SoC's. See here:
https://github.com/codesnake/linux-amlog...8f9afe765d

Its yet to be patched for the S905. So I'm using Mode 2, seen here:
https://github.com/hardkernel/linux/blob...ut.c#L1206
Someone like MrMC or Fritsch would have the Skills I would think as well, I don't understand the code well enough.

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(2016-04-16, 07:00)wrxtasy Wrote: Your wealth of TV and video standard knowledge blows us away Noggin !
It is good when trying to bug bust new Hardware and massage it all into decent shape.
I'm a video nörd... But hopefully my wittering is occasionally helpful. I do try to try and analyse stuff rather than just saying 'it doesn't work'.

Quote:
(2016-04-15, 20:02)noggin Wrote: SD H264 576/50i 16:9 Live TV content appears not to be properly scaled to 16:9 and is squashed (pillar boxed as if it is 1:1 aspect ratio pixels displayed in a 1204x576 canvas?(. SD MPEG2 576/50i 16:9 Live TV initially looks the same but quickly (within a few frames) switches to the correct aspect ratio.
I've actually noticed this on all my AML devices with one particular H264 576/50i TV channel I watch.
I use the video setting in Kodi to fix it:
Settings > Video > Playback > Display 4:3 Video as Stretch 16:9
It does it with all the H264 16:9 SD channels on the UK platform, but I don't want to stretch 4:3 content as 16:9. (I hate wrong-shape video - whether it is 4:3 or 16:9) Or does Kodi remember this on a channel-by-channel basis?

You say it does it for one particular 16:9 H264 channel in Aus - are there other SD H264 channels that it correctly aspect ratio switches on? Would possibly be useful to see what the difference between them is? At the moment it appears that the pixel aspect ratio of the channels that are displayed 'wrong' is being ignored, overriden or not read?
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Just realised there is only one SD H264 Channel. I will have to experiment to see if Kodi remembers if you "Stretch" to 16:9 for a particular Channel.

Quote:Creating audio stream (codec id: 86019, channels: 2, sample rate: 48000, pass-through)
Been Cherry picking in Owersun's and Koying's SPMC Orchard today and have AC3 Audio passthrough working and some improvements as well for DVD playback with an updated LibreELEC version from HERE

I have not tested DTS Audio Passthrough.

Not sure but I believe I have Yadif Software deinterlacing working, onscreen text still appears a bit blocky but I no longer need to Disable de-interlacing for 25fps movie DVD Rips. Smile

I can disable Hardware acceleration and the only TV Channels I have issues Software deinterlacing are 1920x1080i H264 ones. Not enough CPU Ponies.
Still not as good as video quality when using AML Motion Adaptive Hardware deinterlacing, but good enough for DVD's.

I will be interested to see of Noggin's Doco and Music DVD Rips play properly now ?

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rips 1080p HEVC 10 bit not playing on C2 or different devices by Amlogic S905. So bad Sad
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(2016-04-16, 16:32)wrxtasy Wrote: Just realised there is only one SD H264 Channel. I will have to experiment to see if Kodi remembers if you "Stretch" to 16:9 for a particular Channel.

Quote:Creating audio stream (codec id: 86019, channels: 2, sample rate: 48000, pass-through)
Been Cherry picking in Owersun's and Koying's SPMC Orchard today and have AC3 Audio passthrough working and some improvements as well for DVD playback with an updated LibreELEC version from HERE

I have not tested DTS Audio Passthrough.

Not sure but I believe I have Yadif Software deinterlacing working, onscreen text still appears a bit blocky but I no longer need to Disable de-interlacing for 25fps movie DVD Rips. Smile

I can disable Hardware acceleration and the only TV Channels I have issues Software deinterlacing are 1920x1080i H264 ones. Not enough CPU Ponies.
Still not as good as video quality when using AML Motion Adaptive Hardware deinterlacing, but good enough for DVD's.

I will be interested to see of Noggin's Doco and Music DVD Rips play properly now ?

Shout when it's available to download and I'll give it a test.

Interesting you say AML deinterlacing is Motion Adaptive. Will look a bit harder, but it looked better than MA to me. It certainly didn't look like a global MA, I guess it could be block-based MA (which may be what Intel do as well).
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Already available....
Quote:with an updated LibreELEC version from HERE
Funny you should say that as I could swear the S905 deinterlacing quality looked better again than the AML S812.
Its all very good, especially for very fast action Aussie Rules Footy. Smile

(2016-04-16, 19:00)blackride Wrote: rips 1080p HEVC 10 bit not playing on C2 or different devices by Amlogic S905. So bad Sad
All 24p 1080/2160p 10-bit HEVC is playing Ok for the Stuff I've thrown at the C2.
Earlier releases of LibreELEC that resulted in black screens for playback of 24p content has been fixed.
Not yet fixed in Android, I have not gotten around to it, but know what to do.

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(2016-04-16, 19:00)blackride Wrote: rips 1080p HEVC 10 bit not playing on C2 or different devices by Amlogic S905. So bad Sad

I've got 2160/50p 10 bit HEVC stuff playing (with just some minor artefacts) on my C2. What content are you having trouble with?
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Just tried the update on a native interlaced 576/50i DVD.

Results for various deinterlace modes :

Software-ffmpeg - almost 50Hz motion but horrible vertical line artefacts and some jerkiness.
Software-blend - smeary motion, but without the vertical artefacts. Still some underlying jerkiness.
Deinterlace half - 25Hz motion with very poor vertical resolution (as though one field is being doubled and repeated and the other discarded)
YADIF - poor vertical resolution, jerkiness, and not convinced I'm seeing clean 50Hz motion - possibly the best solution.
Bob - very odd, very jerky as though fields/frames are being dropped left right and centre.
Bon Inverted - as above.
(This is very odd - if Bob and Bob-Inverted look the same then they aren't doing what they are supposed to) One of them should present fields in reverse (inverted) order. This isn't happening.

YADIF is an improvement - but nothing delivering the quality I'd get from a Raspberry Pi or a Chromebox. (Or the C2 when showing MPEG2 in a non-VOB wrapper...)

DD and DTS both being passed through. DTS has the drop outs. Haven't heard a DD drop out yet.

*EDIT - yep - DD drop outs too *
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Thought others might be interested that the Astra 28.2 UHD test channel received in TV Headend (running on an x86 box) using a SAT>IP tuner is decoding fine so far on my C2. No artefacts yet that I've seen.

Media Info for the .ts I recorded in TV Headend below. Looks to me like it is 2160/50p Main10 so 10 bit.

Code:
General
ID : 2038 (0x7F6)
Complete name : Astra-Ultra-HD-Demo-Astra-Ultra-HD-Demo2016-04-1719-42.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 27.4 MiB
Duration : 8s 841ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 24.7 Mbps
Video
ID : 210 (0xD2)
Menu ID : 7401 (0x1CE9)
Format : HEVC
Format/Info : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile : Main [email protected]@Main
Codec ID : 36
Duration : 21h 3mn
Width : 3 840 pixels
Height : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 50.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 10 bits
Audio
ID : 220 (0xDC)
Menu ID : 7401 (0x1CE9)
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version : Version 4
Format profile : LC
Muxing mode : ADTS
Codec ID : 15
Duration : 8s 853ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Frame rate : 46.875 fps (1024 spf)
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : -1s 632ms
Menu
ID : 32 (0x20)
Menu ID : 7401 (0x1CE9)
Duration : 8s 841ms
List : 210 (0xD2) (HEVC) / 220 (0xDC) (AAC)
Service name : Astra Ultra HD Demo
Service provider : SES ASTRA
Service type : reserved for future use
and ffmpeg reports
Code:
Input #0, mpegts, from 'Astra-Ultra-HD-Demo-Astra-Ultra-HD-Demo2016-04-1719-42.ts':
  Duration: 00:00:10.96, start: 75829.123944, bitrate: 20927 kb/s
  Program 7401
    Metadata:
      service_name    : ?Astra Ultra HD Demo
      service_provider: ?SES ASTRA
    Stream #0:0[0xd2]: Video: hevc (Main 10) ([36][0][0][0] / 0x0024), yuv420p10le(tv), 3840x2160, 50 fps, 50 tbr, 90k tbn
    Stream #0:1[0xdc]: Audio: aac (LC) ([15][0][0][0] / 0x000F), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 120 kb/s

I don't see any flags reported about colour space.
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(2016-04-17, 20:46)noggin Wrote: Thought others might be interested that the Astra 28.2 UHD test channel received in TV Headend (running on an x86 box) using a SAT>IP tuner is decoding fine so far on my C2. No artefacts yet that I've seen.
Media Info for the .ts I recorded in TV Headend below. Looks to me like it is 2160/50p Main10 so 10 bit.

Looks like audio is AAC. Wasn't it supposed to be AC3?
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