[Hitcher]

Calibrate your TV?

[Disinto]

Calibrate your TV?

Can’t calibrate independently for Rec 709 and Rec 2020 on my TV. SDR movies look fine HOWVER.

[Hitcher]

So it doesn't support HDR?

[Disinto]

It definitely supports HDR. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to run 4K at 60 fps with YUV 4:2:2 12-bit and Rec. 2020 color space.

See an example.
I have a 1080p and 4K HDR Rip that I compared side by side.
Same phenomenons happens with other 4K movies that I compared side by side with their 1080p counterpart (Interstellar, Arrival, etc)

I can't discount the fact that these 4K BR Rips just have a very flat color domain, but I think there's something else...

Here's a correct 2K sample: https://imgur.com/a/XYtNhPT
The washed out 4K sample: https://imgur.com/a/aqDn48Q

Any ideas?

[Hitcher]

Just doesn't make sense to me that a TV doesn't let you calibrate between SDR and HDR signals.

[noggin]

It definitely supports HDR. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to run 4K at 60 fps with YUV 4:2:2 12-bit and Rec. 2020 color space.

See an example.
I have a 1080p and 4K HDR Rip that I compared side by side.
Same phenomenons happens with other 4K movies that I compared side by side with their 1080p counterpart (Interstellar, Arrival, etc)

I can't discount the fact that these 4K BR Rips just have a very flat color domain, but I think there's something else...

Here's a correct 2K sample: https://imgur.com/a/XYtNhPT
The washed out 4K sample: https://imgur.com/a/aqDn48Q

Any ideas?

The 4K sample doesn't look like it's being displayed in HDR mode - that looks like content with an HDR10 ST.2084 PQ EOTF being displayed with an SDR EOTF (like BT.1886 or a Rec.709 power law gamma).

Is your TV definitely switching into HDR10 when you play the HDR content?  

4:2:0 HDR10 content is likely to be :  Rec 2020 colour gamut,  ST.2084 PQ EOTF and 10-bit 
4:2:0 SDR content is likely to be : Rec 709 colour gamut, BT.1886 EOTF or 'Power Law 2.2-2.4' gamma and 8-bit.

Your TV needs to know that HDR content is both Rec 2020 gamut AND ST.2084 PQ HDR AND correctly switch into those modes.  

Until recently the nVidia Shield output at a fixed Rec 709 or Rec 2020 colour gamut based on the HDMI settings - with Rec 709 being converted to Rec 2020 SDR (based on a BT.1886 EOTF), but there is now a developer option to enable Rec 709/Rec 2020 gamut switching over HDMI, which leaves that conversion to your display instead.

Also - Sony TVs include menu settings to enable, disable or override colour gamut and EOTF switching, though I can't comment on other manufacturers. If you have a TV with similar options - it's worth double checking you haven't inadvertently disabled AUTO gamut switching and AUTO EOTF (aka HDR) switching?

[pettergulbra]

Hi

Watch some 25fps stuff, it's being showed in 50fps, but still lagging (much in panoramic moving). My TV does not support 25fps, but 24fps. Is it possible to and would it be OK to show it in 24fps instead of 25fps.
As it seems like NSTV don't handle 25fps over to 50fps.

[noggin]

Hi

Watch some 25fps stuff, it's being showed in 50fps, but still lagging (much in panoramic moving). My TV does not support 25fps, but 24fps. Is it possible to and would it be OK to show it in 24fps instead of 25fps.
As it seems like NSTV don't handle 25fps over to 50fps.

There are no issues with the Shield TV outputting 25Hz content at 50Hz.  If the video is 'lagging' (i.e. not playing correctly and dropping frame or repeating frames) it isn't because it is 25p being output at 50p.  2:2 output of 25p content at 50p is absolutely normal, standard and the usual way of playing 25p content.  (It's how all 50p broadcasters broadcast 25p content...)

Can you post a Media Info report for the content you are trying to play - as there is probably another reason it is not playing correctly.

[pettergulbra]

I have read that to, but still there is something strange. I read some place that there was a known problem on the NSTV,
but I think that post was a littlebit old. Can seem to find it again either.

I don`t know what a Media Info report is, did not find it in the wiki neither.
But I attach a log, removed som stuff in the middle, because the log was to big. But think I have got whats needed.

Log: https://paste.kodi.tv/ozefawovet.kodi

[Disinto]

It definitely supports HDR. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to run 4K at 60 fps with YUV 4:2:2 12-bit and Rec. 2020 color space.

See an example.
I have a 1080p and 4K HDR Rip that I compared side by side.
Same phenomenons happens with other 4K movies that I compared side by side with their 1080p counterpart (Interstellar, Arrival, etc)

I can't discount the fact that these 4K BR Rips just have a very flat color domain, but I think there's something else...

Here's a correct 2K sample: https://imgur.com/a/XYtNhPT
The washed out 4K sample: https://imgur.com/a/aqDn48Q

Any ideas?

The 4K sample doesn't look like it's being displayed in HDR mode - that looks like content with an HDR10 ST.2084 PQ EOTF being displayed with an SDR EOTF (like BT.1886 or a Rec.709 power law gamma).

Is your TV definitely switching into HDR10 when you play the HDR content?  

4:2:0 HDR10 content is likely to be :  Rec 2020 colour gamut,  ST.2084 PQ EOTF and 10-bit 
4:2:0 SDR content is likely to be : Rec 709 colour gamut, BT.1886 EOTF or 'Power Law 2.2-2.4' gamma and 8-bit.

Your TV needs to know that HDR content is both Rec 2020 gamut AND ST.2084 PQ HDR AND correctly switch into those modes.  

Until recently the nVidia Shield output at a fixed Rec 709 or Rec 2020 colour gamut based on the HDMI settings - with Rec 709 being converted to Rec 2020 SDR (based on a BT.1886 EOTF), but there is now a developer option to enable Rec 709/Rec 2020 gamut switching over HDMI, which leaves that conversion to your display instead.

Also - Sony TVs include menu settings to enable, disable or override colour gamut and EOTF switching, though I can't comment on other manufacturers. If you have a TV with similar options - it's worth double checking you haven't inadvertently disabled AUTO gamut switching and AUTO EOTF (aka HDR) switching? 

Thanks Noggin! It's exactly the kind of explanations I'm looking for!
Unfortunately, it seems that my TV has fairly limited settings, and I cannot check any information on the stream the TV is receiving other than resolution and fps.
There's a setting to activate HDR, but there's no color space nor EOTF switching information whatsoever.

In addition, there's no segregation for SDR and HDR picture adjustment. The closest option I could find was custom settings, i.e. I could leave the standard image profile settings for SDR streams and use a custom profile for HDR10 streams, but that obviously would require a long and tedious calibration, since the TV doesn't seem to be able to recognize the right EOTF.

I'll try to fiddle again with the color space option and see whether I can achieve a more satisfactory result.

[noggin]

I have read that to, but still there is something strange. I read some place that there was a known problem on the NSTV,
but I think that post was a littlebit old. Can seem to find it again either.

I don`t know what a Media Info report is, did not find it in the wiki neither.
But I attach a log, removed som stuff in the middle, because the log was to big. But think I have got whats needed.

Log: https://paste.kodi.tv/ozefawovet.kodi

https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo

Media Info is a very useful tool for giving you all the possible information you may want about video and audio content in a file.  It's incredibly useful for helping us to diagnose what problems you might have.  Run your video file through it and then cut and paste the 'Text' information from it to a pastebin or similar and post the link here. (You may be able to Block Quote it)

[noggin]

Thanks Noggin! It's exactly the kind of explanations I'm looking for!
Unfortunately, it seems that my TV has fairly limited settings, and I cannot check any information on the stream the TV is receiving other than resolution and fps.
There's a setting to activate HDR, but there's no color space nor EOTF switching information whatsoever.

When you activate HDR or deactivate it do you see your picture change quality hugely (i.e. does it switch between an HDR10/PQ EOTF and an SDR/BT.1886 EOTF?)

(EOTF is just the accurate way of describing the way a video signal is converted to light output from your TV. SDR and HDR video has different EOTFs)

In addition, there's no segregation for SDR and HDR picture adjustment. The closest option I could find was custom settings, i.e. I could leave the standard image profile settings for SDR streams and use a custom profile for HDR10 streams, but that obviously would require a long and tedious calibration, since the TV doesn't seem to be able to recognize the right EOTF.

You are conflating having separate calibration for SDR and HDR with there being separate menu options. On many TVs - Sony for instance - when you are in HDR mode (i.e. watching an HDR signal) your picture adjustments are made and stored ONLY for HDR content, and don't alter the picture settings for SDR. When you alter the same controls when watching SDR content, they are only adjusting those picture settings for SDR content (and don't change the settings for HDR content)

It's just the same way that picture settings are separate for each HDMI input, for the Digital TV source, for Online TV apps etc. - settings made whilst watching the DVB tuner don't apply to those used when watching the HDMI 1 input for instance.

This isn't true of ALL controls - but it is true of most of them.

Do you have the beta firmware that added HDMI Colour space switching and enabled the Developer option that then lets you enable HDMI Colour space switching ?

If you don't I'd chose Rec 2020 colour space and 12 bit 4:2:2 output as a default (if your TV supports it)

[pettergulbra]

@noggin 
There was not much info to get, maybe I don`t understand how it works.
But this is what I got: https://paste.kodi.tv/kecokasuwi

[Disinto]

 When you activate HDR or deactivate it do you see your picture change quality hugely (i.e. does it switch between an HDR10/PQ EOTF and an SDR/BT.1886 EOTF?)

(EOTF is just the accurate way of describing the way a video signal is converted to light output from your TV. SDR and HDR video has different EOTFs)In addition, there's no segregation for SDR and HDR picture adjustment. The closest option I could find was custom settings, i.e. I could leave the standard image profile settings for SDR streams and use a custom profile for HDR10 streams, but that obviously would require a long and tedious calibration, since the TV doesn't seem to be able to recognize the right EOTF.
You are conflating having separate calibration for SDR and HDR with there being separate menu options. On many TVs - Sony for instance - when you are in HDR mode (i.e. watching an HDR signal) your picture adjustments are made and stored ONLY for HDR content, and don't alter the picture settings for SDR. When you alter the same controls when watching SDR content, they are only adjusting those picture settings for SDR content (and don't change the settings for HDR content)

It's just the same way that picture settings are separate for each HDMI input, for the Digital TV source, for Online TV apps etc. - settings made whilst watching the DVB tuner don't apply to those used when watching the HDMI 1 input for instance.

This isn't true of ALL controls - but it is true of most of them.

Do you have the beta firmware that added HDMI Colour space switching and enabled the Developer option that then lets you enable HDMI Colour space switching ?

If you don't I'd chose Rec 2020 colour space and 12 bit 4:2:2 output as a default (if your TV supports it) 

Hi there,
The only HDR option on my TV is "on" or "off" I then configured the SHIELD to in YUV 4:2:2 12-bit Rec. 2020, which is the maximum supported by my TV.
I don't see any visible difference on my TV when activating this mode, no visible color shift.
I have the latest official firmware/SW upgrade and it already comes with the the option to activate the HDMI Color space switch in the developer mode. I activated it, but it didn't yield to any visible change when playing an HDR10 movie.
I tried 2 movies to make sure (I checked their characteristics with MediaInfo), but again, no change.
Lastly, alas, it seems that the picture controls on my TV are common between SDR and HDR. I tried to play a normal movie and an HDR10 one, with different resolutions, and any change in the menu in one mode was carried over in the other mode.

Finally - initially my TV didn't come with HDR activated but I think it was delivered in a subsequent firmware update.
I can't exclude the fact that HDR mode is buggy on my TV, it's fairly old (LG UF680T)

[noggin]

@noggin 
There was not much info to get, maybe I don`t understand how it works.
But this is what I got: https://paste.kodi.tv/kecokasuwi

  
This is what you should get from the View->Text output from Media Info :

Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 4.60 GiB
Duration : 46mn 53s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 14.1 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings : CABAC / 3 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 46mn 53s
Bit rate : 13.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Scan type, store method : Interleaved fields
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.250
Stream size : 4.25 GiB (92%)
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Commercial name : Dolby Digital
Codec ID : 6
Duration : 46mn 51s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel layout : L R C LFE Ls Rs
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Frame rate : 31.250 fps (1536 SPF)
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 99ms
Stream size : 129 MiB (3%)
Language : English
Language, more info : Clean effects
Service kind : Complete Main

However - your file isn't a video file, it's an ISO (which is an image of an optical disc - like a DVD or CD)

If that is a DVD image, then the video will either be 576i25 (either containing i25 native or p25 carried as i25) or 480i29.97 (either i29.97 native, p29.97 as i29.97 - which is rare, or i23.976 as 3:2 i29.97) The video will be MPEG2 and will need to be deinterlaced.

If you mount the ISO and run one of the 1GB VOB files through Media Info what do you get?