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2017 Apple TV 4K - using the Kodi fork - MrMC review
#61
Wow i'm glad i found this thread, this was well worth the 6.99. Works great so far for all my media. 


stupid apple remote is awful though
Reply
#62
Hi, 
i'm investigating about buying or not ATV 4k, i read the review but i have some questions.

Audio
- Didn't understand in the first post, DD+ is decoded to PCM? or bitstreammed? or downmixed 5.1? 
- EAC3/Atmos is bitstreammed or decoded to PCM?
- What happens with True-hd/Atmos and DTS-X content? Downmixed to True-hd and DTS-HD MA or what?

Video: 
- i read you speak about YADIF2x for software deinterlacing and Lanczos3 for software upscaling. Ok, i'm really confused here, these are software decoders... what about HW decoders? Why use SW decoders instead of HW decoders? They are worst then software generally, or simply ATV 4k HW decoders are bad?

Lately, it seems is not mentioned in the first post that ATV 4k does not have Correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR Infoframe data output in mrmc and other apps.

Thanks
Reply
#63
(2019-11-20, 03:36)antony23 Wrote: Hi, 
i'm investigating about buying or not ATV 4k, i read the review but i have some questions.

Audio
- Didn't understand in the first post, DD+ is decoded to PCM? or bitstreammed? or downmixed 5.1? 
- EAC3/Atmos is bitstreammed or decoded to PCM?
- What happens with True-hd/Atmos and DTS-X content? Downmixed to True-hd and DTS-HD MA or what?

All audio with the ATV 4K can be decoded into multichannel (2.0 / 5.1 / 7.1) LPCM, and in 99.9% of cases it will be lossless decoding for no loss in audio quality. For >48kHz FLAC or the other rare Bluray audio > 48kHz, audio will be resampled and output at 48kHz.

EAC3/DD+ with Atmos is decoded to LPCM and output as Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT 2.0:
https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/wwwd...ations.pdf

Bluray quality lossless TrueHD/Atmos and DTS:X will lose the height audio components, with the TrueHD and DTS-HD parts of that audio being losslessly decoded into LPCM.

The other option is selecting in tvOS settings - everything be remixed into highly compatible 2.0 or 5.1 AC3/DD for use with older audio receivers or pass thru a TV and out again via HDMI/SPDIF ARC. That works well for legacy AC3/DD only audio receiver compatibility.

So summing up, all the majority of ATV 4K users are really losing is Bluray quality lossless Atmos or DTS:X height audio.

Quote:Video: 
- i read you speak about YADIF2x for software deinterlacing and Lanczos3 for software upscaling. Ok, i'm really confused here, these are software decoders... what about HW decoders? Why use SW decoders instead of HW decoders? They are worst then software generally, or simply ATV 4k HW decoders are bad?

The ARM based CPU package the ATV 4K is using is the most powerful currently available on any ARM based media player on the market.
MrMC can CPU software decode mpeg2 and h264 interlaced content and do Full Motion -YADIF2x - deinterlacing of such content.

I'm not sure why MrMC CPU / YADIF2x software deinterlacing was chosen to be honest, maybe the PowerVR GPU does not do HW deinterlacing that well ?
(excluding Hi10P Anime which is also CPU SW decoded) ) ATV 4K has no problems HW decoding everything else.

CPU based Lanczsos3 upscaling really is not needed because the ATV 4K's - PowerVR GPU does great upscaling of non 4K content already, with no limitations.

Quote:Lately, it seems is not mentioned in the first post that ATV 4k does not have Correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR Infoframe data output in mrmc and other apps.

Thanks

Now this gets a bit complicated because it seems 4K HDR TV's all do Tone Mapping differently, especially if Dynamic Tone Mapping functionality is enabled in 4K HDR TV settings.

If you had a HDR10 auto Tone Mapping Projector - I would say yes correct passthru of MaxCLL/FALL metadata is really important.

But for modern 4K HDR TV's, well you really have to do your own research about what Tone mapping techniques each Brand uses. Some even ignore MaxCLL/FALL metadata and do their own dynamic frame by frame analysis.
See this https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?pid...pid2897271 for a more info.

W.

Reply
#64
(2019-11-20, 05:37)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-11-20, 03:36)antony23 Wrote: Hi, 
i'm investigating about buying or not ATV 4k, i read the review but i have some questions.

Audio
- Didn't understand in the first post, DD+ is decoded to PCM? or bitstreammed? or downmixed 5.1? 
- EAC3/Atmos is bitstreammed or decoded to PCM?
- What happens with True-hd/Atmos and DTS-X content? Downmixed to True-hd and DTS-HD MA or what?

All audio with the ATV 4K can be decoded into multichannel (2.0 / 5.1 / 7.1) LPCM, and in 99.9% of cases it will be lossless decoding for no loss in audio quality. For >48kHz FLAC or the other rare Bluray audio > 48kHz, audio will be resampled and output at 48kHz.

EAC3/DD+ with Atmos is decoded to LPCM and output as Dolby Atmos in Dolby MAT 2.0:
https://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/wwwd...ations.pdf

Bluray quality lossless TrueHD/Atmos and DTS:X will lose the height audio components, with the TrueHD and DTS-HD parts of that audio being losslessly decoded into LPCM.

The other option is selecting in tvOS settings - everything be remixed into highly compatible 2.0 or 5.1 AC3/DD for use with older audio receivers or pass thru a TV and out again via HDMI/SPDIF ARC. That works well for legacy AC3/DD only audio receiver compatibility.

So summing up, all the majority of ATV 4K users are really losing is Bluray quality lossless Atmos or DTS:X height audio.
Quote:Video: 
- i read you speak about YADIF2x for software deinterlacing and Lanczos3 for software upscaling. Ok, i'm really confused here, these are software decoders... what about HW decoders? Why use SW decoders instead of HW decoders? They are worst then software generally, or simply ATV 4k HW decoders are bad?

The ARM based CPU package the ATV 4K is using is the most powerful currently available on any ARM based media player on the market.
MrMC can CPU software decode mpeg2 and h264 interlaced content and do Full Motion -YADIF2x - deinterlacing of such content.

I'm not sure why MrMC CPU / YADIF2x software deinterlacing was chosen to be honest, maybe the PowerVR GPU does not do HW deinterlacing that well ?
(excluding Hi10P Anime which is also CPU SW decoded) ) ATV 4K has no problems HW decoding everything else.

CPU based Lanczsos3 upscaling really is not needed because the ATV 4K's - PowerVR GPU does great upscaling of non 4K content already, with no limitations.
Quote:Lately, it seems is not mentioned in the first post that ATV 4k does not have Correct MaxCLL/FALL HDR Infoframe data output in mrmc and other apps.

Thanks

Now this gets a bit complicated because it seems 4K HDR TV's all do Tone Mapping differently, especially if Dynamic Tone Mapping functionality is enabled in 4K HDR TV settings.

If you had a HDR10 auto Tone Mapping Projector - I would say yes correct passthru of MaxCLL/FALL metadata is really important.

But for modern 4K HDR TV's, well you really have to do your own research about what Tone mapping techniques each Brand uses. Some even ignore MaxCLL/FALL metadata and do their own dynamic frame by frame analysis.
See this https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?pid...pid2897271 for a more info.

W. 


Hi @wrxtasy, thanks a lot for the answer.

(2019-11-20, 05:37)wrxtasy Wrote: So summing up, all the majority of ATV 4K users are really losing is Bluray quality lossless Atmos or DTS:X height audio.

It loses height audio, or it loses full extended metadata? That is, shoudn't it sound as standard trueHd/DTS-x signal without object metadata?


(2019-11-20, 05:37)wrxtasy Wrote: CPU based Lanczsos3 upscaling really is not needed because the ATV 4K's - PowerVR GPU does great upscaling of non 4K content already, with no limitations.

So, it is possible sw deinterlacing and then hw upscaling? I wrongly thinked all stuff should be handled full sw or ful hw.

Thanks again!
Reply
#65
(2019-11-20, 06:28)antony23 Wrote: It loses height audio, or it loses full extended metadata? That is, shouldn't it sound as standard trueHd/DTS-x signal without object metadata?

Yes that is what I meant - you lose object Metadata, just tongue tied for the correct words. You have it correct

(2019-11-20, 05:37)wrxtasy Wrote: CPU based Lanczsos3 upscaling really is not needed because the ATV 4K's - PowerVR GPU does great upscaling of non 4K content already, with no limitations.

Quote:So, it is possible sw deinterlacing and then hw upscaling? I wrongly thinked all stuff should be handled full sw or ful hw.

Thanks again!

For Interlaced content SW decoding and SW / YADIF2x deinterlacing, then all non 4K picture inputs get upscaled by the PowerVR GPU's post processing functionality.
It's all seamless. Set and forget.

Reply
#66
@wrxtasy,
Doesn’t infuse app support Dolby Atmos on atv if you really want it? I know .. this being Kodi forum and All but I am thinking of getting the Atmos setup (receiver speakers, etc) and wondering if I should go atv with a mix of MrMC and infuse or N2.
Reply
#67
(2019-11-20, 06:52)wrxtasy Wrote:
(2019-11-20, 06:28)antony23 Wrote: It loses height audio, or it loses full extended metadata? That is, shouldn't it sound as standard trueHd/DTS-x signal without object metadata?

Yes that is what I meant - you lose object Metadata, just tongue tied for the correct words. You have it correct
(2019-11-20, 05:37)wrxtasy Wrote: CPU based Lanczsos3 upscaling really is not needed because the ATV 4K's - PowerVR GPU does great upscaling of non 4K content already, with no limitations.
Quote:So, it is possible sw deinterlacing and then hw upscaling? I wrongly thinked all stuff should be handled full sw or ful hw.

Thanks again!

For Interlaced content SW decoding and SW / YADIF2x deinterlacing, then all non 4K picture inputs get upscaled by the PowerVR GPU's post processing functionality.
It's all seamless. Set and forget. 
Thank a lot for the answer.
So if i would summerize the bad thigs of ATV 4k, for using as FULL media player + ios apps:

    - (HW) bad remote with touchpad (a standard remote with keyboard would be the best)
    - (HW) no usb

    - (SW) no Kodi support: will kodi 19 support ATV 4k? I read something about it IIRC.
    - (SW) vp9 for 4k youtube: will be added? I don't think Smile
    - (HW or SW?) No trueHD/atmos and DTS-X bistream/decoding and 48Khz PCM limit: curious to understand if these are HW limits or SW limits.. maybe added in future?
Reply
#68
(2019-11-20, 23:27)ozkhan1 Wrote: @wrxtasy,
Doesn’t infuse app support Dolby Atmos on atv if you really want it? I know .. this being Kodi forum and All but I am thinking of getting the Atmos setup (receiver speakers, etc) and wondering if I should go atv with a mix of MrMC and infuse or N2.

It may support DD+ with Atmos (as used by Netflix and Amazon Prime) - but that is different to Dolby True HD with Atmos (as used for main soundtracks on Blu-rays)
Reply
#69
Yes that is correct.

NO lossless Bluray quality Atmos audio is possible with the ATV 4K no matter what App you use.

You do get lossy Atmos from Netflix, Prime Video, iTunes, ATV+ streaming however.

As a side note as well the ATV 4K is the only media streamer platform currently getting Atmos audio from the new Disney+ App.

Get an ODROID N2 if you want Kodi Leia lossless Atmos audio passthrough support.

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#70
Is there in the meantime a small, Apple like remote (not infrared) with a D-Pad and Volume control (maybe like the new Fire TV Remote) which os compatible withe the Apple TV 4k? I could live without Siri as long as I can have fast remote control reaction with volume control.

Wanted to do a small bluetooth relay with a Raspberry PI acting as a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth receiver for a bluetooth Xiaomi Remote, but couldn’t get it work, my linux pzthon skills are really bad.

So if anyone has any idea how to get that realized it would be great.

Thanks for your support here.

Regards
Vlaves
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#71
I just programmed the ATV 4K's remote to learn my AVR's Infra Red Volume Control. And yes it's fast when doing it.

Down the bottom of here:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205225:

Quote:Adjust HDMI-CEC and volume settings on your Apple TV

Go to Settings > Remotes and Devices, then choose the following:

Control TVs and Receivers: Choose whether your Siri Remote or Apple TV Remote automatically turns on your television or receiver.

Volume Control: Choose whether your Siri Remote or Apple TV Remote controls volume for your television or your receiver. You can also select this to learn, edit, or delete learned volume controls.

Reply
#72
(2019-11-22, 10:09)wrxtasy Wrote: I just programmed the ATV 4K's remote to learn my AVR's Infra Red Volume Control. And yes it's fast when doing it.

Down the bottom of here:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205225:
Quote:Adjust HDMI-CEC and volume settings on your Apple TV

Go to Settings > Remotes and Devices, then choose the following:

Control TVs and Receivers: Choose whether your Siri Remote or Apple TV Remote automatically turns on your television or receiver.

Volume Control: Choose whether your Siri Remote or Apple TV Remote controls volume for your television or your receiver. You can also select this to learn, edit, or delete learned volume controls.
@wrxtasy Thanks for the quick reply, but I guess you got me wrong. I'm still searching for a remote with D-Pad which is working with the Apple TV but is not infrared.
The Siri Remote can of course learn sending infrared and I know it is really fast, just that I can't live with the touchpad instead of direction keys pad.

Maybe some knows a working remote or has an Idea how this could be done.

Thnaks for your support 

Regards
Vlaves
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#73
Ahhh OK, then these threads might be helpful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comment...their_atv/

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comment...le_remote/

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/search/...trict_sr=1

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#74
(2019-11-22, 11:08)wrxtasy Wrote: Ahhh OK, then these threads might be helpful:

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comment...their_atv/

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/comment...le_remote/

https://www.reddit.com/r/appletv/search/...trict_sr=1
Thank you for the reply, will have a look  Smile
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#75
Hi @wrxtasy 


So I bought the Minix U9 for the 4K, HDR and DTS-HD formats. It plays them without any major problems but I looking to upgrade for a more "plug and play" system.

Would you say  that the ATV 4k player is a good choice if Im running the U9 at the moment?

4K and HDR is important, the HD formats not very much, ofcourse its nice that it says DTS-HD or TRUEHD on the receiver but I wont hear any difference if it is PCM or not i belive since I read above that is is lossless decoded?
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