[hdmkv]

Looks like a solid list, thanks . Should be comparable to FTV Stick 4K afterwards.

[MrCrispy]

perhaps they frequenctly fix their android implementation which I highly expect from google

I find this funny as Google is notorious for no long term support of their hardware and Android has had many strange decisions

[noggin]

Looking once more on the datasheet. It seems it is not AV1 capable from hw pov. That means, even if the SW matures a lot - you probably have to replace it next year christmas. Really not sure what they thought ... perhaps they frequenctly fix their android implementation which I highly expect from google, then we have some fun with it.

For most platforms I expect AV1 will be supported alongside, rather than replace, h.265 for UHD HDR content - as so many existing hardware players (Smart TVs, Fire TVs, Apple TV 4K, Roku etc.) used for Netflix, Prime, Disney+ etc. 'in the field' won't support AV1 yet, and it won't be an issue for UHD BD Rips, BD Rips or DVD Rips unless they are re-encoded in AV1 I guess.

Platforms like YouTube that Google own may start restricting their very high-end streams like 8K (or 4K?) to AV1 I guess - but do you see it being a major limitation?

So - on my list:
- Implement YUV 10 bit scanout
- Implement HBR bitstream audio support (8 channel IEC)
- Expose the proper refreshrates via the API YOU (google) invented
- Implement what the chip supports (Dolby-Vision, HQ scaling, etc.)

Is this your list for Google to implement, or your list for Kodi to support functionality that is already present on the Chomecast with Google TV?

BTW - has anyone checked what video output formats it supports, I guess if it is fixed at p50 or p59.94 output then at 2160p50 or 2160p59.94 it will need to support YCbCr 4:2:2 12-bit and/or YCbCr 4:2:0 10-bit to support HDR. (4:4:4/RGB at 2160p50/59.94 is limited to 8-bit in HDMI 2.0/2.0a displays)

[wrxtasy]

Looking once more on the datasheet. It seems it is not AV1 capable from hw pov. That means, even if the SW matures a lot - you probably have to replace it next year christmas. Really not sure what they thought ... perhaps they frequenctly fix their android implementation which I highly expect from google, then we have some fun with it.

For most platforms I expect AV1 will be supported alongside, rather than replace, h.265 for UHD HDR content - as so many existing hardware players (Smart TVs, Fire TVs, Apple TV 4K, Roku etc.) used for Netflix, Prime, Disney+ etc. 'in the field' won't support AV1 yet, and it won't be an issue for UHD BD Rips, BD Rips or DVD Rips unless they are re-encoded in AV1 I guess.

Looks like Android Smartphones already have limited Android Netflix App - AV1 support via the open source dav1d decoder.
Netflix is using AV1 to save on Mobile streaming data usage., see the netflixtechblog (click)

I know Kodi v19 Matrix (click), CoreELEC, possibly LibreELEC too has libdav1d (SW decode) support.

Platforms like YouTube that Google own may start restricting their very high-end streams like 8K (or 4K?) to AV1 I guess - but do you see it being a major limitation?

I don't see it being an issue either for 4K video playback. If 8K ever becomes popular then AV1 might gain some decent traction.
Google is not about to abandon their free to use VP9 codec.

[noggin]

Looking once more on the datasheet. It seems it is not AV1 capable from hw pov. That means, even if the SW matures a lot - you probably have to replace it next year christmas. Really not sure what they thought ... perhaps they frequenctly fix their android implementation which I highly expect from google, then we have some fun with it.

For most platforms I expect AV1 will be supported alongside, rather than replace, h.265 for UHD HDR content - as so many existing hardware players (Smart TVs, Fire TVs, Apple TV 4K, Roku etc.) used for Netflix, Prime, Disney+ etc. 'in the field' won't support AV1 yet, and it won't be an issue for UHD BD Rips, BD Rips or DVD Rips unless they are re-encoded in AV1 I guess.

Looks like Android Smartphones already have limited Android Netflix App - AV1 support via the open source dav1d decoder.
Netflix is using AV1 to save on Mobile streaming data usage., see the netflixtechblog (click)

Yes - but Netflix is still available to subscribers who don't have AV1 compatible handsets isn't it? My point is that support for AV1 may not be 'must have' and instead be 'nice to have'. It will potentially improve the quality for people on low bitrate broadband and LTE/3G connections I guess too - but Netflix et al aren't going to switch off streams for non-AV1 clients any time soon are they?  I guess the software implementation for 720p and 1080p streams is within the processing power of some portable devices - but it will be interesting to see if hardware decode of h.265 vs software decode of AV1 has a battery life impact ? (Historically CPU decode is not favoured over hardware decode on battery powered devices for this reason - and that's why hardware decode is still a thing?)

I know Kodi v19 Matrix (click), CoreELEC, possibly LibreELEC too has libdav1d (SW decode) support.

Platforms like YouTube that Google own may start restricting their very high-end streams like 8K (or 4K?) to AV1 I guess - but do you see it being a major limitation?

I don't see it being an issue either for 4K video playback. If 8K ever becomes popular then AV1 might gain some decent traction.
Google is not about to abandon their free to use VP9 codec.

The compelling reasons for AV1 adoption are lower bitrates (i.e. cheaper for content owners to stream) or higher quality at a given bitrate (i.e. make your platform more compelling for subscribers) - and possibly also lower/zero royalties to use it.

[volatyle]

For those of you that have been able to play around with the new Chromecast;
I've been thinking of getting a Nvidia Shield 2019 - or a CCWGTV to play my ripped content through either Plex or Kodi - 4K HDR content.

I really prefer the simplier CCWGTV solution - do you reckon it'll work or am I better off just getting the Shield anyway?

Vol

[FXB78]

For those of you that have been able to play around with the new Chromecast;
I've been thinking of getting a Nvidia Shield 2019 - or a CCWGTV to play my ripped content through either Plex or Kodi - 4K HDR content.

I really prefer the simplier CCWGTV solution - do you reckon it'll work or am I better off just getting the Shield anyway?

Vol

If that's all you want it to do you could get an ODROID N2+, running CoreELEC Kodi Leia for almost half the price of the Shield. Of course you wouldn't be able to use any Android apps but you could run Kodi with the Composite addon for any Plex content.

[noggin]

For those of you that have been able to play around with the new Chromecast;
I've been thinking of getting a Nvidia Shield 2019 - or a CCWGTV to play my ripped content through either Plex or Kodi - 4K HDR content.

I really prefer the simplier CCWGTV solution - do you reckon it'll work or am I better off just getting the Shield anyway?

Vol

The Shield TV looks to be a much better solution for pure Kodi use if you have an AVR and care about frame rates.  However if you just want Kodi with very good support - then an AMLogic box will deliver similar performance - if not better in some cases - than the Shield TV.  The Chromecast with Google TV is a non-starter with no HD Audio or Frame Rate switching support.

If you want very good Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+ etc. then the Apple TV 4K is a better bet in many respects (decent frame rate switching on all sources unlike almost every other platform - though 24 vs 23.976 is still an issue I believe, Dolby Vision and Dolby Atmos for streaming sources) - though you have to run MrMC not Kodi (it's a fork of Kodi with no Python add ons) and don't get HD Audio bitstreamed (but you do get decent PCM decode - though no True HD + Atmos or DTS:x)

[MrCrispy]

Why is it only Nvidia Shield allows Android access to underlying hardware capabilities? It should not be that hard to tweak the firmware to do so. If Chinese oem's like Ugoos can do it, certainly Google can.
There's no reason so many Android boxes with perfectly fine hardware as well as full certification for Netflix etc, do not allow lossless audio just due to this.

[noggin]

Why is it only Nvidia Shield allows Android access to underlying hardware capabilities? It should not be that hard to tweak the firmware to do so. If Chinese oem's like Ugoos can do it, certainly Google can.
There's no reason so many Android boxes with perfectly fine hardware as well as full certification for Netflix etc, do not allow lossless audio just due to this.

I think it's more a case that they haven't bothered to, not that they can't.  I suspect that not enough people in the Google team/chain whatever behind this product 'get' the need for dynamic refresh rate switching.  The previous Chromecasts didn't support it either.  Did the original Nexus Android TV player?

Given that Netflix don't seem to care unduly either (the only platform they seem to support frame rate switching on is the Apple TV tvOS platform) - I guess it's no surprise...

[foxbat121]

Why is it only Nvidia Shield allows Android access to underlying hardware capabilities? It should not be that hard to tweak the firmware to do so. If Chinese oem's like Ugoos can do it, certainly Google can.
There's no reason so many Android boxes with perfectly fine hardware as well as full certification for Netflix etc, do not allow lossless audio just due to this.

I think it's more a case that they haven't bothered to, not that they can't.  I suspect that not enough people in the Google team/chain whatever behind this product 'get' the need for dynamic refresh rate switching.  The previous Chromecasts didn't support it either.  Did the original Nexus Android TV player?

Given that Netflix don't seem to care unduly either (the only platform they seem to support frame rate switching on is the Apple TV tvOS platform) - I guess it's no surprise...

No, no Android TV box ever supported refresh rate matching. Even Shield can't do it (only Kodi is able to do inside the app, other apps are not capable). However, Android TV 11 introduced new API to allow app easily request desired refresh rate via a simple call. Whether or not apps will adapt to use the new API is another story. Sadly, even the Google's own CCGTV doesn't support Android TV 11 out of box yet.

[flips22]

I'm struggling with 4k video on my setup.  Almost all of the files I've tried aren't working at all, displaying a frame a second or so.  I tested some 4k demo files and I'm getting the same results.  I thought I would share and see if it is just me, or if it's just a hardware limitation.  Initially I thought it was network bandwidth, but switching to ethernet didn't improve anything.

I tested 3 4k demos, the AVC file (Dubai) played the best, but I still got a buffering circle every 20-30 seconds or so.  The other two HEVC files barely played at all.  With my other files I played around with audio streams thinking it might be an audio issue, but I didn't have any luck there either.

I should also mention that my TV is 1080p, not sure if that is having an effect or not.

Looks like both of your 4K samples are in HDR.  Can you try an SDR 4K file?

I think that you might be on to something.  The Dubai clip I posted isn't HDR, and it plays okay, but will buffer after 30s or so.  I tried a couple of THX trailers that aren't HDR and they worked just fine. Although if they are longer the buffering might have come up like in the Dubai clip. The bit rate is highest in the Dubai clip so that might be part of it as well.  The other two are HDR10 clips that won't play at all.  This is mirrored in other files I have tried that work well if they are not HDR10.
I tried after installing the system update that came out today, but didn't make any difference.

THX trailers: http://thedigitaltheater.com/thx-trailers/
Eclipse and Genesis were the two I tested.

flips22

[noggin]

Why is it only Nvidia Shield allows Android access to underlying hardware capabilities? It should not be that hard to tweak the firmware to do so. If Chinese oem's like Ugoos can do it, certainly Google can.
There's no reason so many Android boxes with perfectly fine hardware as well as full certification for Netflix etc, do not allow lossless audio just due to this.

I think it's more a case that they haven't bothered to, not that they can't.  I suspect that not enough people in the Google team/chain whatever behind this product 'get' the need for dynamic refresh rate switching.  The previous Chromecasts didn't support it either.  Did the original Nexus Android TV player?

Given that Netflix don't seem to care unduly either (the only platform they seem to support frame rate switching on is the Apple TV tvOS platform) - I guess it's no surprise...

No, no Android TV box ever supported refresh rate matching. Even Shield can't do it (only Kodi is able to do inside the app, other apps are not capable). However, Android TV 11 introduced new API to allow app easily request desired refresh rate via a simple call. Whether or not apps will adapt to use the new API is another story. Sadly, even the Google's own CCGTV doesn't support Android TV 11 out of box yet.

I wasn't talking specifically about refresh rate matching (which requires the OS to work out what frame rate the video is and match it), more refresh rate changing (where the app 'knows' what the refresh rate should be and requests Android to set it).  Is there a private API only implemented on the Shield TV that Kodi is using?  (A bit like the bespoke API that Fire OS has that Prime Video - but not many other apps - uses on Fire OS?)

[foxbat121]

I don't know. On Shield, you get a full list of resolutions and refresh rate you can white list in Kodi. On these AMLogic based boxes, you only get a single resolution and refresh rate in the white list. Naturally, Kodi will not be able to switch to different ones because it only knew there is one resolution and refresh rate that is supported by the device.

[FXB78]

I don't know. On Shield, you get a full list of resolutions and refresh rate you can white list in Kodi. On these AMLogic based boxes, you only get a single resolution and refresh rate in the white list. Naturally, Kodi will not be able to switch to different ones because it only knew there is one resolution and refresh rate that is supported by the device.

Kodi for Android switches refresh rates just fine on AMLogic boxes, and shows multiple resolutions. You can't use such a blanket statement, maybe this Google device won't do it but my Ugoos S905X2 certainly does.