[ashlar]

Well as we're in alpha no will go to the trouble yet if doing any ffmpeg backports yet, as ffmpeg can updated all the way up to last Beta, so there los of opportunity for any ffmpeg 6.1, 6.2 etc, or perhaps even an ffmpeg 7.0 depending on how long we take to get to the last beta. It's normal that ffmpeg gets updated multiple times during a release cycle. Ffmpeg backports will only be considered for anything vital once we gets towards RC.

Hi @jjd-uk, Beta 3 has arrived. Any chance of seeing those three commits backported? I am not a developer but I suppose that those should not have many ramifications for other parts of ffmpeg. What do you think? I understand not wanting to update ffmpeg, but maybe backporting those three commits is doable and it would make lots of people happy (detecting object based audio without needs of filenames, etc.).

[jjd-uk]

Once again no

[ashlar]

Once again no

Sorry if I annoyed you. I was quoting a message from you that made it sound hypothetically doable. If I got that wrong, sorry twice.

[jjd-uk]

What I said was

Ffmpeg backports will only be considered for anything vital

This is in no way vital. By vital I meant a fix for something that is broken, for example the ffmpeg version in Kodi broke an audio codec and ffmpeg issue a fix, then that maybe considered for a backport, however we will never do a backport for new functionality.

[ashlar]

What I said was

Ffmpeg backports will only be considered for anything vital

This is in no way vital. By vital I meant a fix for something that is broken, for example the ffmpeg version in Kodi broke an audio codec and ffmpeg issue a fix, then that maybe considered for a backport, however we will never do a backport for new functionality.

Ok, I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. I will wait. :-)

[ashlar]

Almost in jest... ffmpeg team released 7.0 on April 5th and Kodi released Omega on April 6th

What's the path ahead now? Will Kodi adopt 7.0 or at least 6.1 for Kodi P? Just trying to understand if there will be relevant nightlies for me to test, etc.

Thanks! :-)

[ashlar]

Indeed, I do. Some of the Fast and the Furios movies' German tracks have been mastered as HRA based DTS:X. So, it's not just a theoretical format.

Is this something MediaInfo can reliably identify? I'd like to check if release 7 brought this functionality to ffmpeg as well, out of curiosity. I should actually investigate about the differences in the codec as well, since I don't know what HRA brings to the table that's different from regular DTS:X.

[jjd-uk]

Most likely the next bump will be to ffmpeg 7, as it has already been talked about internally. However I believe they've depreciated some more API's we currently use, so there might be some work needed before it can be done.

[ashlar]

Most likely the next bump will be to ffmpeg 7, as it has already been talked about internally. However I believe they've depreciated some more API's we currently use, so there might be some work needed before it can be done.

Cool, I will follow developments on github.

[Chillbo]

Is this something MediaInfo can reliably identify? I'd like to check if release 7 brought this functionality to ffmpeg as well, out of curiosity. I should actually investigate about the differences in the codec as well, since I don't know what HRA brings to the table that's different from regular DTS:X.

Yes, it indeed can. Here's the output of a sample file:

Code:


General
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 470 MiB
Duration                                 : 1 min 0 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 65.2 Mb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2018-02-02 19:42:25 UTC
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v20.0.0 ('I Am The Sun') 64-bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.5 + libmatroska v1.4.8
IsTruncated                              : Yes

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main [email protected]@high
HDR format                               : SMPTE ST 2086, HDR10 compatible
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEGH/ISO/HEVC
Duration                                 : 1 min 0 s
Bit rate                                 : 55.2 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0 (Type 2)
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.278
Stream size                              : 398 MiB (85%)
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan File 3.7.8 (4.7.8.0)
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Mastering display color primaries        : Display P3
Mastering display luminance              : min: 0.0050 cd/m2, max: 1000 cd/m2
Maximum Content Light Level              : 703 cd/m2
Maximum Frame-Average Light Level        : 304 cd/m2

Audio #1
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS XXCH X
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                          : DTS-HD HRA + DTS:X
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 1 min 0 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 3 456 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss Objects
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Delay relative to video                  : 1 ms
Stream size                              : 24.9 MiB (5%)
Title                                    : Deutsch DTS:X / HRA 7.1 NIMA4K
Language                                 : German
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No


And a file with "normal" DTS:X based on DTS-HD MA:

Code:


General
Format                                   : Matroska
Format version                           : Version 4
File size                                : 46.5 MiB
Duration                                 : 42 s 422 ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 9 192 kb/s
Frame rate                               : 23.976 FPS
Encoded date                             : 2016-02-06 15:41:36 UTC
Writing application                      : mkvmerge v8.8.0 ('Wind at my back') 64bit
Writing library                          : libebml v1.3.3 + libmatroska v1.4.4

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : [email protected]
Format settings                          : CABAC / 4 Ref Frames
Format settings, CABAC                   : Yes
Format settings, Reference frames        : 4 frames
Codec ID                                 : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration                                 : 42 s 417 ms
Width                                    : 1 920 pixels
Height                                   : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Constant
Frame rate                               : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Writing library                          : x264 core 148 r2597 e86f3a1
Encoding settings                        : cabac=1 / ref=4 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=10 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=15.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=20000 / vbv_bufsize=30000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : DTS XLL X
Format/Info                              : Digital Theater Systems
Commercial name                          : DTS-HD MA + DTS:X
Codec ID                                 : A_DTS
Duration                                 : 42 s 422 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Channel(s)                               : 8 channels
Channel layout                           : C L R LFE Lb Rb Lss Rss Objects
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 93.750 FPS (512 SPF)
Bit depth                                : 24 bits
Compression mode                         : Lossless
Language                                 : English
Default                                  : Yes
Forced                                   : No


DTS-HD HRA is the equivalent to Dolby Digital Plus in the Dolby world. It's a lossy codec with possbile higher bitrates, samplerates, bit-depths and channel count... But HRA has not become the standard e.g. in streaming that DD+ has become nowadays.

[ashlar]

DTS-HD HRA is the equivalent to Dolby Digital Plus in the Dolby world. It's a lossy codec with possbile higher bitrates, samplerates, bit-depths and channel count...

So one could say that it's somehow less desirable than a DTS HD MA with DTS:X, correct? Just trying to understand what's better. Even though I'm not fixated on high samplerates and frequencies.

[Chillbo]

Just looking at the specs of the codec, yes. HRA is lossy, MA is lossless.

[ashlar]

Just looking at the specs of the codec, yes. HRA is lossy, MA is lossless.

Cool. Thanks a lot for checking.