[izprtxqkft]

I've settled on an N100 box for the following reasons after evaluating Intel/Nvidia/AMD in Windows 11 Pro and also several Android players. I used my Sony A80J OLED TV for my testing.

nice add, thanks for that and the PR which should lead to improvements

[noggin]

Intel, as represented by Beelink N100 mini PC (Intel UHD graphics) running Windows 11 Pro

No anomalies observed so far. In particular, I've yet to see any of the issues I talk about below for Nvidia, AMD, and Android. It's the best Kodi platform I've ever used. In addition, it goes into and out of sleep on demand without any problem. 

However, it does have a limitation. If you want 10 bit RGB color, you have to set the desktop to no more than 4K @ 30 Hz resolution. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 60 Hz, you will get 8 bit color at the desktop, and Windows will report "8-bit plus dithering" for the Color Depth in System->Display->Advanced Display when playing 10 bit video in Kodi, even for resolutions that work at 10 bits, like 4K @ 23.976. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 30 Hz or below, Windows will report "10-bit". Setting the desktop to a 10 bit resolution that allows 60Hz, like 1080p60, only affects test videos I have that are 4K @ 60 Hz, as the Kodi supported resolutions whitelist tops out at 4K @ 30 Hz, so those videos play at 30 Hz. Everything below 4K @ 60 Hz plays normally at the correct resolution, refresh rate, and 10 bit color depth. Apparently, the desktop color depth caps the Kodi whitelist, so while you might think videos could play at 4K @ 60 Hz and "8-bit plus dithering", it isn't allowed.

One thing to be aware of with HDMI 2.0a is that 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz is only supported in a sub-set of colour sampling and bit depth options - and that can cause problems if you want >8 bit depth. (There are fewer video subsampling/chroma modes that can carry 10-bit video in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz than at 23.976-30Hz).  HDMI 2.0a doesn't support RGB or 4:4:4 output at 10-bit at 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz - that's not an Intel limitation - that's an HDMI 2.0a spec limitation as it's higher than 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 links can carry ISTR.  You need HDMI 2.1 and 48Gbs links for that format.

For HDMI 2.0/2.0a 2160p 50-60Hz output :

8-bit is supported in RGB, 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 (*). (NB not 4:2:2)
10-bit is supported at 4:2:0 only (NB not 4:2:2, 4:4:4 or RGB)
12-bit is supported at 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 (NB not 4:4:4 or RGB)

Therefore for HDR 10-bit content the only 2160p 50-60Hz output modes that can carry a full 10-bit signal are 4:2:0 10-bit and 12-bit, and 4:2:2 12-bit (12-bit carries 10-bit with 2 lowest significant bits padded, usually with zeroes). HDMI 2.0a doesn't support 4:4:4/RGB at 3840x2160p 50-60Hz with 10 or 12-bit depth, nor is 10-bit 4:2:2 a valid mode.

4:2:0 is not universally supported by all devices ISTR (for PCs it outputs chroma at 1920x1080 and luma at 3840x2160 so it's a bad fit for desktop work) - which means you just have to hope for 4:2:2 12-bit support (also non-ideal for desktop work, bet less non-ideal than 4:2:0 )

(*) 4:2:0 was added partially because it allowed 3840x2160p 50-60Hz to be carried over HDMI 1.4b compatible bandwidth links (it just squeezes into the old spec's physical limitations)

ISTR that there were driver issues in Linux with >8-bit colour depth on Intel GPUs in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz modes - so this may be related. (I can't remember if they ended up fixing them or put up with 8-bit and dither)

HDMI 2.0a specs
Wayback Link to HDMI 2.0a

[crawfish]

Intel, as represented by Beelink N100 mini PC (Intel UHD graphics) running Windows 11 Pro

No anomalies observed so far. In particular, I've yet to see any of the issues I talk about below for Nvidia, AMD, and Android. It's the best Kodi platform I've ever used. In addition, it goes into and out of sleep on demand without any problem. 

However, it does have a limitation. If you want 10 bit RGB color, you have to set the desktop to no more than 4K @ 30 Hz resolution. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 60 Hz, you will get 8 bit color at the desktop, and Windows will report "8-bit plus dithering" for the Color Depth in System->Display->Advanced Display when playing 10 bit video in Kodi, even for resolutions that work at 10 bits, like 4K @ 23.976. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 30 Hz or below, Windows will report "10-bit". Setting the desktop to a 10 bit resolution that allows 60Hz, like 1080p60, only affects test videos I have that are 4K @ 60 Hz, as the Kodi supported resolutions whitelist tops out at 4K @ 30 Hz, so those videos play at 30 Hz. Everything below 4K @ 60 Hz plays normally at the correct resolution, refresh rate, and 10 bit color depth. Apparently, the desktop color depth caps the Kodi whitelist, so while you might think videos could play at 4K @ 60 Hz and "8-bit plus dithering", it isn't allowed.

One thing to be aware of with HDMI 2.0a is that 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz is only supported in a sub-set of colour sampling and bit depth options - and that can cause problems if you want >8 bit depth. (There are fewer video subsampling/chroma modes that can carry 10-bit video in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz than at 23.976-30Hz).  HDMI 2.0a doesn't support RGB or 4:4:4 output at 10-bit at 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz - that's not an Intel limitation - that's an HDMI 2.0a spec limitation as it's higher than 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 links can carry ISTR.  You need HDMI 2.1 and 48Gbs links for that format.

For HDMI 2.0/2.0a 2160p 50-60Hz output :

8-bit is supported in RGB, 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 (*). (NB not 4:2:2)
10-bit is supported at 4:2:0 only (NB not 4:2:2, 4:4:4 or RGB)
12-bit is supported at 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 (NB not 4:4:4 or RGB)

Therefore for HDR 10-bit content the only 2160p 50-60Hz output modes that can carry a full 10-bit signal are 4:2:0 10-bit and 12-bit, and 4:2:2 12-bit (12-bit carries 10-bit with 2 lowest significant bits padded, usually with zeroes). HDMI 2.0a doesn't support 4:4:4/RGB at 3840x2160p 50-60Hz with 10 or 12-bit depth, nor is 10-bit 4:2:2 a valid mode.

4:2:0 is not universally supported by all devices ISTR (for PCs it outputs chroma at 1920x1080 and luma at 3840x2160 so it's a bad fit for desktop work) - which means you just have to hope for 4:2:2 12-bit support (also non-ideal for desktop work, bet less non-ideal than 4:2:0 )

(*) 4:2:0 was added partially because it allowed 3840x2160p 50-60Hz to be carried over HDMI 1.4b compatible bandwidth links (it just squeezes into the old spec's physical limitations)

ISTR that there were driver issues in Linux with >8-bit colour depth on Intel GPUs in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz modes - so this may be related. (I can't remember if they ended up fixing them or put up with 8-bit and dither)

HDMI 2.0a specs
Wayback Link to HDMI 2.0a

I think that was what I was alluding to when I wrote about the AMD 5560U machine, "This is a nice machine, but Beelink seems to have limited the HDMI port in the same way as the N100, i.e. it can't do 4K @ 60 Hz @ 10 bits". I stuck with RGB and didn't experiment with pixel formats that should have allowed it. Still, it would be nice if Kodi could overcome the limitations apparently imposed by the desktop settings I described in the part you quoted, but I suppose it's doing what it can based on the capabilities being reported to it. It's confusing, but these things are possible depending on how the desktop is configured (this is for the N100, didn't verify all this for the AMD):

1. Desktop 4K @ 60 Hz @ 8 bit RGB, Kodi plays 4K @ 60 Hz @ 8-bit plus dithering, but then nothing gets 10 bits.
2. Desktop 4K @ 30 Hz (or lower like 2K @ 60Hz, which is what I use) @ 10 bit RGB, Kodi plays the 4K@60Hz test files at 30 Hz and 10 bits, which has pretty jerky motion, but everything below them is perfect, include 4K @ 24 Hz.

I couldn't figure out a desktop/driver/Kodi configuration to get the best of both worlds.

[noggin]

Intel, as represented by Beelink N100 mini PC (Intel UHD graphics) running Windows 11 Pro

No anomalies observed so far. In particular, I've yet to see any of the issues I talk about below for Nvidia, AMD, and Android. It's the best Kodi platform I've ever used. In addition, it goes into and out of sleep on demand without any problem. 

However, it does have a limitation. If you want 10 bit RGB color, you have to set the desktop to no more than 4K @ 30 Hz resolution. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 60 Hz, you will get 8 bit color at the desktop, and Windows will report "8-bit plus dithering" for the Color Depth in System->Display->Advanced Display when playing 10 bit video in Kodi, even for resolutions that work at 10 bits, like 4K @ 23.976. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 30 Hz or below, Windows will report "10-bit". Setting the desktop to a 10 bit resolution that allows 60Hz, like 1080p60, only affects test videos I have that are 4K @ 60 Hz, as the Kodi supported resolutions whitelist tops out at 4K @ 30 Hz, so those videos play at 30 Hz. Everything below 4K @ 60 Hz plays normally at the correct resolution, refresh rate, and 10 bit color depth. Apparently, the desktop color depth caps the Kodi whitelist, so while you might think videos could play at 4K @ 60 Hz and "8-bit plus dithering", it isn't allowed.

One thing to be aware of with HDMI 2.0a is that 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz is only supported in a sub-set of colour sampling and bit depth options - and that can cause problems if you want >8 bit depth. (There are fewer video subsampling/chroma modes that can carry 10-bit video in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz than at 23.976-30Hz).  HDMI 2.0a doesn't support RGB or 4:4:4 output at 10-bit at 3840x2160p at 50-60Hz - that's not an Intel limitation - that's an HDMI 2.0a spec limitation as it's higher than 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 links can carry ISTR.  You need HDMI 2.1 and 48Gbs links for that format.

For HDMI 2.0/2.0a 2160p 50-60Hz output :

8-bit is supported in RGB, 4:4:4 and 4:2:0 (*). (NB not 4:2:2)
10-bit is supported at 4:2:0 only (NB not 4:2:2, 4:4:4 or RGB)
12-bit is supported at 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 (NB not 4:4:4 or RGB)

Therefore for HDR 10-bit content the only 2160p 50-60Hz output modes that can carry a full 10-bit signal are 4:2:0 10-bit and 12-bit, and 4:2:2 12-bit (12-bit carries 10-bit with 2 lowest significant bits padded, usually with zeroes). HDMI 2.0a doesn't support 4:4:4/RGB at 3840x2160p 50-60Hz with 10 or 12-bit depth, nor is 10-bit 4:2:2 a valid mode.

4:2:0 is not universally supported by all devices ISTR (for PCs it outputs chroma at 1920x1080 and luma at 3840x2160 so it's a bad fit for desktop work) - which means you just have to hope for 4:2:2 12-bit support (also non-ideal for desktop work, bet less non-ideal than 4:2:0 )

(*) 4:2:0 was added partially because it allowed 3840x2160p 50-60Hz to be carried over HDMI 1.4b compatible bandwidth links (it just squeezes into the old spec's physical limitations)

ISTR that there were driver issues in Linux with >8-bit colour depth on Intel GPUs in 3840x2160p 50-60Hz modes - so this may be related. (I can't remember if they ended up fixing them or put up with 8-bit and dither)

HDMI 2.0a specs
Wayback Link to HDMI 2.0a

I think that was what I was alluding to when I wrote about the AMD 5560U machine, "This is a nice machine, but Beelink seems to have limited the HDMI port in the same way as the N100, i.e. it can't do 4K @ 60 Hz @ 10 bits". I stuck with RGB and didn't experiment with pixel formats that should have allowed it. Still, it would be nice if Kodi could overcome the limitations apparently imposed by the desktop settings I described in the part you quoted, but I suppose it's doing what it can based on the capabilities being reported to it. It's confusing, but these things are possible depending on how the desktop is configured (this is for the N100, didn't verify all this for the AMD):

1. Desktop 4K @ 60 Hz @ 8 bit RGB, Kodi plays 4K @ 60 Hz @ 8-bit plus dithering, but then nothing gets 10 bits.
2. Desktop 4K @ 30 Hz (or lower like 2K @ 60Hz, which is what I use) @ 10 bit RGB, Kodi plays the 4K@60Hz test files at 30 Hz and 10 bits, which has pretty jerky motion, but everything below them is perfect, include 4K @ 24 Hz.

I couldn't figure out a desktop/driver/Kodi configuration to get the best of both worlds.

Yep - just to be clear - these are HDMI 2.0 spec limitations - not AMD/Intel/nVidia limitations.  

At 2160p 50-60Hz using HDMI 2.0/2.0a the standard only gives you a choice of 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 if you want >8-bit - you can't have RGB 10/12-bit or 4:4:4 YCbCr 10/12-bit output from any HDMI 2.0 source at that resolution and those frame rates - it's too high a bandwidth for the 18Gbs HDMI 2.0 connections to handle.  (That's why you get more options at 30Hz and below - because you're sending far less data down the same bits of wire )

HOWEVER to complicate things 4:2:0 isn't available for 2160p30Hz and below frame rates - so you can't use that if your drivers allow you just one subsampling/chroma setting for all display frame rates.  If that's the case then 4:2:2 12-bit is the only HDMI 2.0 format that supports >8 bit video in 2160p at all frame rates from 23.976-60Hz. Now there's nothing to stop your driver offering you a 10-bit 4:2:2 option and outputting at 12-bit (to avoid having to actually run in 12-bit - but there isnt' a 10-bit 4:2:2 option in the HDMI 2.0/2.0a specs)

If Intel's Windows drivers don't let you have two output formats for the two different 2160p frame rate ranges and/or don't let you use 4:2:2 12-bit as your output format - that's an Intel limitation not an HDMI 2.0/2.0a limitation.

To get 2160p  RGB/4:4:4 YCbCr in >8-bit for all frame rates 2160p23.976-60Hz you need HDMI 2.1 connectivity (which is still not that widespread) as that's when the HDMI standard introduced wider bandwidth connectivity which allowed for 2160p50-60Hz in >8 bit at RGB/4:4:4 YCbCr.

[jogal]

Some info of this thread is outdated / inaccurate:

Nvidia, as represented by RTX 3060 Ti, GT 1030

I originally moved to Android in 2018 because video would stutter a frame or two every hour or so with my GT 1030 card. I gave Nvidia another try a couple months ago, and I found nothing has changed even with my current RTX 3060 Ti. It appears the reason is that Nvidia doesn't handle the 23.976 refresh rate properly, which I talked about in more detail earlier in this thread:

This is no longer an issue from 2020-06-24 (driver 451.48):
 

451.48  2020-06-24 

this is the first driver which has a better 23p refresh rate,
several users, including me, can confirm that. 

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p...ost1862364

 

Intel, as represented by Beelink N100 mini PC (Intel UHD graphics) running Windows 11 Pro

No anomalies observed so far. In particular, I've yet to see any of the issues I talk about below for Nvidia, AMD, and Android. It's the best Kodi platform I've ever used. In addition, it goes into and out of sleep on demand without any problem. 

However, it does have a limitation. If you want 10 bit RGB color, you have to set the desktop to no more than 4K @ 30 Hz resolution. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 60 Hz, you will get 8 bit color at the desktop, and Windows will report "8-bit plus dithering" for the Color Depth in System->Display->Advanced Display when playing 10 bit video in Kodi, even for resolutions that work at 10 bits, like 4K @ 23.976. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 30 Hz or below, Windows will report "10-bit". Setting the desktop to a 10 bit resolution that allows 60Hz, like 1080p60, only affects test videos I have that are 4K @ 60 Hz, as the Kodi supported resolutions whitelist tops out at 4K @ 30 Hz, so those videos play at 30 Hz. Everything below 4K @ 60 Hz plays normally at the correct resolution, refresh rate, and 10 bit color depth. Apparently, the desktop color depth caps the Kodi whitelist, so while you might think videos could play at 4K @ 60 Hz and "8-bit plus dithering", it isn't allowed.

From years all Intel drivers supports (and use) 12-bit output for 4K / RGB / HDR <= 30 Hz and (due HDMI bandwidth limitation) uses 8-bit when is not possible.

This means:

In Windows / driver control panel configure default 8-bit RGB 59.94 Hz settings and Windows HDR switch = OFF 

In Kodi configure "Use HDR display capabilities" = ON
In kodi configure "Switch display refresh rate" = at Start/Stop

If you want 1080p videos upscaled by Kodi (and using Video Super Resolution) configure whitelist with 3840 x 2160 modes only.

Then Kodi GUI works at 4K 59.94 Hz SDR
SDR movies plays at correct refresh rates 23.976 Hz 8-bit
HDR 4K movies plays at correct refresh rate 23.976 Hz RGB 12-bit (10-bit + padding)
HDR 4K 59.94 fps movies (Gemini Man) plays at correct refresh rate 59.94 Hz RGB 8-bit (using dithering).  This is due HDMI 2.0 limitation, not Kodi limitation or Intel limitation.
If for some reason you want Kodi GUI with Windows HDR ON then is same 4K / RGB / 59.94 Hz 8-bit dithering. 

This works currently using Windows 11 and devices older as Intel NUC8i3BEK.
This was tested using an HDMI analyzer (not what Windows display settings says) and confirmed with Denon AVR (OSD in HDMI signal information or similar).

NOTE: Probably all of this stops working well the moment you start touching things in the graphics control panel (custom resolutions, forcing color depths, forcing using 4:2:2, forcing using YCbCr, etc.

All works fine with driver clean install (factory settings). And same apply to NVIDIA (4K RGB / 12-bit / 23.976 Hz) is also the video mode used for HDR.

One difference in NVIDIA is seems has stopped support DXVA rendering in HDR limited range (configuring video in limited range in Kodi / TV):

On RTX 2060 is possible use DXVA render method for HDR limited range output.
On RTX 4070 configuring render method in Auto or DXVA fallback to Pixel Shaders when output is HDR limited range only (DXVA still works in HDR full range).

[crawfish]

Some info of this thread is outdated / inaccurate:

Nvidia, as represented by RTX 3060 Ti, GT 1030

I originally moved to Android in 2018 because video would stutter a frame or two every hour or so with my GT 1030 card. I gave Nvidia another try a couple months ago, and I found nothing has changed even with my current RTX 3060 Ti. It appears the reason is that Nvidia doesn't handle the 23.976 refresh rate properly, which I talked about in more detail earlier in this thread:

This is no longer an issue from 2020-06-24 (driver 451.48):
 

451.48  2020-06-24 

this is the first driver which has a better 23p refresh rate,
several users, including me, can confirm that. 

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p...ost1862364

Certainly, I'm guessing at the reason for my observations, but they are what they are, and they match what the avsforum user stated in his post that I linked to earlier in the thread: 

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/23-976h...t-60496675

"Nvidia cards have never been able to refresh at an exact 23.976. Up until mid-2020, the closest you could get without creating a custom rate was about a dropped/repeated frame every 4.5 minutes. Newer drivers are able to get this down to a drop/repeat every 1.08 hours. A big improvement, but still not perfect."

That was from Feb 2021, so 7 months after your doom9 post. Note well that this guy says newer drivers only improve things, not fix things, and he's talking about a "mid-2020 driver", which lines up with your doom9 poster. I linked to that message in the below post, where I also talked about the horrible behavior unique to Nvidia WRT to the Motion Bars sample I linked to. That's something very different and worse than the once-per-hour stutters I observe with Nvidia, and like those stutters, I've only observed it with Nvidia:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid...pid3182023

But that's just a test file designed to expose motion problems. The big issue with my 5800X / RTX 3060 Ti / Sony A80J system now is exactly the same as it was five years ago with my i5 4670 / GT 1030 / Panasonic ST60 system, a non-reproducible video stutter I observe once an hour or so. It's why I moved to Android five years ago, and why I moved back just in the last month after giving my all-new Nvidia system a try. I wouldn't have tried the mini PCs except for the other, different Android annoyances I listed, and I'm glad I did, because the N100 box runs Kodi perfectly so far, modulo the HDMI limitation I talked about. I even bought (and returned) a Fire Cube 3 to see if it solved the issues I described for my CCwGTV and Onn 4K 2023 box, and unfortunately, it didn't.

 

Intel, as represented by Beelink N100 mini PC (Intel UHD graphics) running Windows 11 Pro

No anomalies observed so far. In particular, I've yet to see any of the issues I talk about below for Nvidia, AMD, and Android. It's the best Kodi platform I've ever used. In addition, it goes into and out of sleep on demand without any problem. 

However, it does have a limitation. If you want 10 bit RGB color, you have to set the desktop to no more than 4K @ 30 Hz resolution. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 60 Hz, you will get 8 bit color at the desktop, and Windows will report "8-bit plus dithering" for the Color Depth in System->Display->Advanced Display when playing 10 bit video in Kodi, even for resolutions that work at 10 bits, like 4K @ 23.976. If you set the desktop to 4K @ 30 Hz or below, Windows will report "10-bit". Setting the desktop to a 10 bit resolution that allows 60Hz, like 1080p60, only affects test videos I have that are 4K @ 60 Hz, as the Kodi supported resolutions whitelist tops out at 4K @ 30 Hz, so those videos play at 30 Hz. Everything below 4K @ 60 Hz plays normally at the correct resolution, refresh rate, and 10 bit color depth. Apparently, the desktop color depth caps the Kodi whitelist, so while you might think videos could play at 4K @ 60 Hz and "8-bit plus dithering", it isn't allowed.

From years all Intel drivers supports (and use) 12-bit output for 4K / RGB / HDR <= 30 Hz and (due HDMI bandwidth limitation) uses 8-bit when is not possible.

This means:

In Windows / driver control panel configure default 8-bit RGB 59.94 Hz settings and Windows HDR switch = OFF 

In Kodi configure "Use HDR display capabilities" = ON
In kodi configure "Switch display refresh rate" = at Start/Stop

If you want 1080p videos upscaled by Kodi (and using Video Super Resolution) configure whitelist with 3840 x 2160 modes only.

Then Kodi GUI works at 4K 59.94 Hz SDR
SDR movies plays at correct refresh rates 23.976 Hz 8-bit
HDR 4K movies plays at correct refresh rate 23.976 Hz RGB 12-bit (10-bit + padding)
HDR 4K 59.94 fps movies (Gemini Man) plays at correct refresh rate 59.94 Hz RGB 8-bit (using dithering).  This is due HDMI 2.0 limitation, not Kodi limitation or Intel limitation.
If for some reason you want Kodi GUI with Windows HDR ON then is same 4K / RGB / 59.94 Hz 8-bit dithering. 

This works currently using Windows 11 and devices older as Intel NUC8i3BEK.
This was tested using an HDMI analyzer (not what Windows display settings says) and confirmed with Denon AVR (OSD in HDMI signal information or similar).

NOTE: Probably all of this stops working well the moment you start touching things in the graphics control panel (custom resolutions, forcing color depths, forcing using 4:2:2, forcing using YCbCr, etc.

All works fine with driver clean install (factory settings). And same apply to NVIDIA (4K RGB / 12-bit / 23.976 Hz) is also the video mode used for HDR.

One difference in NVIDIA is seems has stopped support DXVA rendering in HDR limited range (configuring video in limited range in Kodi / TV):

On RTX 2060 is possible use DXVA render method for HDR limited range output.
On RTX 4070 configuring render method in Auto or DXVA fallback to Pixel Shaders when output is HDR limited range only (DXVA still works in HDR full range).

I'm just reporting what I observed with the tools available to me. I don't have an HDMI analyzer. The resolution and refresh rate Windows reports agree with my TV info display, but unfortunately, the TV doesn't report color depth, so all I have to go on are Windows and Kodi info screens. My Intel Graphics Command Center settings were RGB 8 bit or 10 bit with resolution and refresh rate configured in Windows Settings, because Intel doesn't have the latter in its Command Center. HDR is turned off in Windows, but Kodi turns it on and off as needed and switches resolution/refresh rate on start/stop.

[noggin]

Then Kodi GUI works at 4K 59.94 Hz SDR
SDR movies plays at correct refresh rates 23.976 Hz 8-bit
HDR 4K movies plays at correct refresh rate 23.976 Hz RGB 12-bit (10-bit + padding)
HDR 4K 59.94 fps movies (Gemini Man) plays at correct refresh rate 59.94 Hz RGB 8-bit (using dithering).  This is due HDMI 2.0 limitation, not Kodi limitation or Intel limitation.
If for some reason you want Kodi GUI with Windows HDR ON then is same 4K / RGB / 59.94 Hz 8-bit dithering. 

Yes - you're correct about RGB >8-bit not being an option for 2160p50-60Hz (i.e. 4K 59.94fps) over HDMI 2.0 - as that would require >18Gbs bandwidth.
However 4:2:2 YCbCr is supported at all 2160p frame rates at 12 bit depth in HDMI 2.0/2.0a, If Intel doesn't let you select that - it's an Intel issue not an HDMI 2.0/2.0a issue?

That's how other platforms deliver full 10-bit HDR at 2160p50-59.94Hz without 8-bit and dithering - and given that all consumer content (DVB, ATSC, DVD, BD, UHD BD, SVoD Streaming) is 4:2:0 then 4:2:2 isn't a major issue?

[bossanova808]

^ this

There's no point chasing colour that is beyond what the source material has been mastered out to.  Better to choose an output mode that is completely reliable and capable of handling everything your sources need - so 4:2:2 in 12 bit is absolutely fine for all current 4K material up to and including Dolby Vision sources be they streaming or Bluray.  (So often you see people having issues with black screens and unstable connections because they seem to think they must have 4:4:4 for some reason...all you're doing is sacrificing stability for absolutely no visual benefit...).  Indeed, as noggin says just about everything in the normal/consumer arena is 4:2:0 so 4:2:2 is already headroom, really...

(I believe gaming is the exception as some of the consoles can/do output higher, but in the context of video...)

[crawfish]

^ this

There's no point chasing colour that is beyond what the source material has been mastered out to.  Better to choose an output mode that is completely reliable and capable of handling everything your sources need - so 4:2:2 in 12 bit is absolutely fine for all current 4K material up to and including Dolby Vision sources be they streaming or Bluray.  (So often you see people having issues with black screens and unstable connections because they seem to think they must have 4:4:4 for some reason...all you're doing is sacrificing stability for absolutely no visual benefit...).  Indeed, as noggin says just about everything in the normal/consumer arena is 4:2:0 so 4:2:2 is already headroom, really...

(I believe gaming is the exception as some of the consoles can/do output higher, but in the context of video...)

What about colorspace conversions and different handling of different formats? Spears and Munsil even wrote an article on choosing a colorspace, as different source/output device combinations may handle them in different ways:

https://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio-it...r-space-2/#

By choosing RGB and Kodi (Limited) -> Video card (Full) -> TV (Limited), I believed I was minimizing conversions, and it's what I've done ever since it became possible. It's how I've evaluated test patterns visually and also how I've performed calibrations in Calman with my i1D3. I didn't care about the desktop having the wrong range, because this TV input is for Kodi, not general desktop use, and it's not like computer maintenance is impeded by this. That said, I just tried setting my N100 to 4:2:2, and now I can set the desktop to 4K@60 Hz. However, I had to disable "Use Limited Range" in Kodi to get rid of the newly elevated blacks. Going through the basic AVS HD 709 test patterns (Black/White Clipping, etc), the only difference I see so far is that whiter-than-white is gone, which some say doesn't matter, though Spears and Munsil say it matters some:

https://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio-it...control-2/

Significantly, the grayscale ramp looks fine with no obvious banding. I haven't looked at HDR yet or gone into Calman. Maybe it's fine, and it's a little simpler to set up, though I still wouldn't want to use it for gaming or other PC usage that requires RGB. It basically trades my known good configuration for one I have to re-evaluate with patterns and Calman, and for what? The only thing it lets me do is play my two (count 'em!) 4K 60 Hz test files at 60 Hz instead of 30 Hz.

ETA: While 4:2:2 allows my 4K test files to play at 60 Hz on my N100, they still don't play perfectly. If 30 Hz is totally unwatchable due to frame skips, 60 Hz is just a bit less unwatchable, and for the same reason. In contrast, my CCwGTV plays these files perfectly. So I guess this N100 box just isn't up to the task. However, for 4K@30 Hz and below, it's been perfect.

BTW, while experimenting with 4:2:2, I wanted to see if lower bit depths helped with the frame skips. I tried 8 bit, and the TV immediately lost the HDMI signal when I started playback in Kodi. The keyboard and mouse were also unresponsive, but I was able to Remote Desktop in to recover without doing a hard reset. The same thing happened earlier today when I verified a couple of things on my RTX 3060 Ti system, except there, I had it configured for 1080p @ 120 Hz, Gsync active, RGB, and 10 bit color. When I started playback, the TV lost the HDMI signal, the computer went unresponsive, and I had to hard reset as I've disabled remote access to that system. Changing the refresh rate to 60 Hz allowed Kodi to play video.

[noggin]

^ this

There's no point chasing colour that is beyond what the source material has been mastered out to.  Better to choose an output mode that is completely reliable and capable of handling everything your sources need - so 4:2:2 in 12 bit is absolutely fine for all current 4K material up to and including Dolby Vision sources be they streaming or Bluray.  (So often you see people having issues with black screens and unstable connections because they seem to think they must have 4:4:4 for some reason...all you're doing is sacrificing stability for absolutely no visual benefit...).  Indeed, as noggin says just about everything in the normal/consumer arena is 4:2:0 so 4:2:2 is already headroom, really...

(I believe gaming is the exception as some of the consoles can/do output higher, but in the context of video...)

What about colorspace conversions and different handling of different formats? Spears and Munsil even wrote an article on choosing a colorspace, as different source/output device combinations may handle them in different ways:

https://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio-it...r-space-2/#

By choosing RGB and Kodi (Limited) -> Video card (Full) -> TV (Limited), I believed I was minimizing conversions, and it's what I've done ever since it became possible. It's how I've evaluated test patterns visually and also how I've performed calibrations in Calman with my i1D3. I didn't care about the desktop having the wrong range, because this TV input is for Kodi, not general desktop use, and it's not like computer maintenance is impeded by this. That said, I just tried setting my N100 to 4:2:2, and now I can set the desktop to 4K@60 Hz. However, I had to disable "Use Limited Range" in Kodi to get rid of the newly elevated blacks. Going through the basic AVS HD 709 test patterns (Black/White Clipping, etc), the only difference I see so far is that whiter-than-white is gone, which some say doesn't matter, though Spears and Munsil say it matters some:

https://spearsandmunsil.com/portfolio-it...control-2/

Significantly, the grayscale ramp looks fine with no obvious banding. I haven't looked at HDR yet or gone into Calman. Maybe it's fine, and it's a little simpler to set up, though I still wouldn't want to use it for gaming or other PC usage that requires RGB. It basically trades my known good configuration for one I have to re-evaluate with patterns and Calman, and for what? The only thing it lets me do is play my two (count 'em!) 4K 60 Hz test files at 60 Hz instead of 30 Hz.

ETA: While 4:2:2 allows my 4K test files to play at 60 Hz on my N100, they still don't play perfectly. If 30 Hz is totally unwatchable due to frame skips, 60 Hz is just a bit less unwatchable, and for the same reason. In contrast, my CCwGTV plays these files perfectly. So I guess this N100 box just isn't up to the task. However, for 4K@30 Hz and below, it's been perfect.

BTW, while experimenting with 4:2:2, I wanted to see if lower bit depths helped with the frame skips. I tried 8 bit, and the TV immediately lost the HDMI signal when I started playback in Kodi. The keyboard and mouse were also unresponsive, but I was able to Remote Desktop in to recover without doing a hard reset. The same thing happened earlier today when I verified a couple of things on my RTX 3060 Ti system, except there, I had it configured for 1080p @ 120 Hz, Gsync active, RGB, and 10 bit color. When I started playback, the TV lost the HDMI signal, the computer went unresponsive, and I had to hard reset as I've disabled remote access to that system. Changing the refresh rate to 60 Hz allowed Kodi to play video.

Once you start looking at the full playback chain things get really complex - particularly in Windows as it was never really designed to handle video level space 16-235 (vs 0-255) properly.  If you go from 16-235 YCbCr to 0-255 RGB internally in a PC (which I think many do) then you'll end up with no <16 BTB and >235 WTW surviving (<16 BTB is useful for PLUGE line-up but shouldn't have content that should be visible in it - but >235 content is valid and ideally shouldn't be clipped).  If you go from 16-235 YCbCr to 16-235 RGB you preserve the BTB and WTW (though any colour space mapping is lossy)  

Kodi had/has a 'cheat mode' with 'Use Limited Levels' which outputs 16-235 content even if the underlying OS thinks it's running in 0-255 Full range mode - thus showing grey blacks and dim whites when watched Full Range, but correct if watched in Limited. You have to be able to force your TV to Limited mode even when the device feeding it is saying 'I'm Full Range' (the HDMI infoframes are probably flagging Full Mode on modern drivers and TVs in Auto will switch to Full mode) to get the correct black and white levels then?

(You need to disable this 'Use Limited Levels' mode if your device actually uses Limited Levels by default... Confusingly... Also if your OS is running in 16-235 output mode you may still be losing BTB <16 and WTW >235 still as you may be going 16-235->0-255->16-235 (as it may still run 0-255 internally).  The Full Range + Kodi Limited Levels hack avoids that ISTR.

NB this was all in the HD days - no idea how it maps to HDR (HLG and PQ both usually use 16-235/64-940 range ISTR, though Dolby Vision is different )

[bossanova808]

I suppose you'd have to have other needs to be using Windows?  I ran Windows Kodi for some years (AMD A6 APU era) but compared to a LibreElec or CoreElec approach, it's nothing but headaches.  Given these machines are so cheap I'd say run an Elec and using some other machine if you need other things running on Windows, but for video, Windows is just a major PITA that makes everything much more complicated than it needs to be.

(And even the above linked article basically can be summed up as saying that 4:2:2 12 bit is the likely best option in most scenarios!).

[noggin]

I suppose you'd have to have other needs to be using Windows?  I ran Windows Kodi for some years (AMD A6 APU era) but compared to a LibreElec or CoreElec approach, it's nothing but headaches.  Given these machines are so cheap I'd say run an Elec and using some other machine if you need other things running on Windows, but for video, Windows is just a major PITA that makes everything much more complicated than it needs to be.

(And even the above linked article basically can be summed up as saying that 4:2:2 12 bit is the likely best option in most scenarios!).

Yep - pretty much

And I've not run Kodi under Windows for Kodi HTPC use pretty much ever AFAIK.  I went from XBMC on a modded Xbox (that only ran XBMC - I don't play games...) and a Windows XP/7 Media Centre to do DVB-T TV (with Radeon VGA->RGB SCART cables to do 576i25 RGB output...) to CoreElec and then LibreElec on various x86 boxes (Shout out to the Acer Revo and HP Chromeboxes!) and now am a mix of Raspberry Pi 4B and 5 with LibreElec, Vero V with OSMC and Homatics with CoreElec.  (TV Headend for TV duties, uNRAID since 2008 for media storage)

[jjd-uk]

FYI there seems to be an audio bug with the Intel linux driver when doing 4K with HD audio, see https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/10199

[izprtxqkft]

FYI there seems to be an audio bug with the Intel linux driver when doing 4K with HD audio, see https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/intel/-/issues/10199

that's a common theme though, every platform has some sort of caveat
windows are listed above
libreelec you have to use a kernel patch to limit to 10bit or suffer audio drop outs
coreelec doesn't actually do DV profile 7 and converts it to profile 8 under the hood due to a kernel/driver thing (unless fixed recently)
android depending on the device cannot switch refresh rates and/or certain audio passthrough won't work

it's still very much buy something that does MOSTLY what you want and then accept some sort of deficiency

[jjd-uk]

This is only an issue with Alder Lake chips. There is no issue with other Intel hardware.