Please make XBMC Live installation and setup more user friendly
#1
First let me start off by saying that I think that XBMC is a great media center and I really appreciate all the hard work of everybody that contributes to it. So, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to bash XBMC at all in this post. These are just legitamite suggestions that I have for making XBMC easier to install and set up. Currently I have XBMC setup on an XBOX and use it all the time. I recently bought an Acer Revo for a purpose other than XBMC, but after I determined that I didn't need it after all, I saw the guide on Lifehacker showing how to install XBMC Live to it so I thought that I would give it a go. I enjoy XBMC on my Xbox, but thought that it might be worth it to get the improved video play back and maybe get better emulator performance from PS1 and N64 games, but it proved so frustrating in trying to setup that I gave up after about 2 weeks of trying. I admit that some of my problems are probably due to my lack of skill in Linux, but here are some of the problems that I ran into.

1) Installation - First, it took me a couple of days just to figure out how to get XBMC to boot up. I started out using the Lifehacker guide and trying to make a bootable USB drive only to find out that method doesn't work with the new version of XBMC. Plus a lot of other installation steps had changed between versions. A more consistent installation process between versions would be great in helping reduce confusion.

2) Setup - The main issue that I had with setup is that in order to enable some features, like HDMI audo, you had to create a file on a separate compluter and then FTP it over to your XBMC machine. This created a lot of problems, because if you made one mistake, or in my case the data got corrupted, you couldn't just fix the file and move on. The whole XBMC would become corrupted and not load after a restart. So, I would have to completely re-install XBMC which would take over an hour. To become completely user friendly, XBMC needs to be able to make all changes to settings within the gui.

3) Gaming - After all the problems that I had with the previous two steps, I was finally able to get XBMC up and running satisfactorily, however I never could get the emulators to work, and that was a real deal breaker for me, because my favorite feature of XBMC on my xbox is to be able to play all of my favorite classic games on one platform. Some of the problems that I ran into included installing the emulators. I tried running the sudo commands that I found in the forums, but a lot of them just didn't work. There needs to be a better and more centralized way of installing emulators. On the Xbox it was so easy. All of the emulators were in the same place and you just downloaded what you wanted and FTP'd it over and it would launch without any problems. XBMC Live should have the same ability. I was finally able to install ZSNES, but never could get it to launch. Part of the problem was the launcher program. This needs to go. XBMC shouldn't need a separate program to launch other programs. This should be a built in feature. When I did try to use the launcher, though, it wouldn't even allow me to browse to the folder where ZSNES was installed, so I had to edit a file to link it manually, and you guessed it, when I rebooted XBMC failed to load. When faced with the task of another reinstall of XBMC, I finally gave up. Another suggestion for games that I have is that I really wish that it had it's own separate tab in XBMC instead of having to launch them from under "Programs". Currently it's like gaming is an afterthought, but it should be really more of a focus. Also, for how gaming is handled, Maximus Arcade should be looked at and possibly borrowed from. It's a Windows program that allows you to easily select your emulator and roms location and then browse and launch them form one centralized program. I know that some of you may be thinking, "Well why don't you just use Maximus Arcade then?". Well, it's because I want to get away from the Windows environment for my media center needs so that I don't have to deal with things like viruses, bloatware, and critical updates. That's why I turned to XBMC in the first place. It just needs to be easier to use. I think that it's currently the best media center program out there and I look forward to trying it again in the future. I just hope that some of these issues are addressed by then.

So, again, I'm not here to bash, just making suggestions. I realize that I may get some feedback on what I did wrong and on how to fix it, but that's not really the point. XBMC should be so user friendly that these problems shouldn't even come up and we shouldn't have to create work arounds. Knowing how talented the XBMC staff is, though, I think that they will eventually get these problems ironed out.
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#2
We have zero interest whatsoever with gaming, so you're on your own completely with number 3. Patches welcome to improve the launching side of things and/or to integrate with apt better.

Number 1 and number 2 we can perhaps do something about, but this is highly dependent on hardware, which we really cannot test. We'd ofcourse welcome detailed installation notes for each particular live release - I'm sure as we approach the next stable release there'll be alphas and betas to test and base these notes on.

Newer versions of live contain newer versions of ubuntu as a base which is better and better in this regard, but will never be perfect simply due to the near limitless combinations of hardware out there.

Cheers,
Jonathan
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#3
also if I have to admit that over the last 3 years I learnt a lot about linux from my various XBMC installation experiences on a wide variation of hardware, I'd personally highly appreciate it and see it valid if the next live image would be more tailored for the Atom&Ion combo, which means:
listen closely to what XBMCfreak did with his hacked-together live image, integrate the sensors stuff, hack alsa 1.0.23 in there (even if it's not part of the main distribution yet) together with the at the time of release newest nvidia&VDPAU kernel driver, prepare scripts for automatic modeline support, try to get support for a wider selection of wireless modules, and so on. it would also be absolutely great if we could finally get a real GUI selection for the alsa devices, by the way.

also if I might still decide to go the XBMCbuntu route for my hardware projects, each and every adaptation you might do related to the atom&ion systems will help a majority of people and will help reduce the "typical" n00b questions we are seeing in the forums every day.

on a sidenote, I'm very well aware you guys do this stuff non-commercial just for the fun of it, and I highly appreciate all efforts you're putting in this awesome stuff. been using XBMC since it was available on the good ole xbox and loved every second of it Big Grin
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#4
jmarshall Wrote:We have zero interest whatsoever with gaming

Oh, I see. I didn't realize the lack of gaming support was intentional. I wish it was more of a focus, but since that is a design choice, I guess I can live with it and try to make do with the tools that are available. But, keep up with the good work, otherwise.
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#5
Hannes The Hun Wrote:I'd personally highly appreciate it and see it valid if the next live image would be more tailored for the Atom&Ion combo,
(...)
integrate the sensors stuff
prepare scripts for automatic modeline support
XBMCLive is supposed to enable more people to try XBMC on more HW setups, which is the opposite path you are suggesting.
One way of coping with specific HW configuration would be to create a configuration script (XBMC GUI script ofc) that fine-tunes the system configuration depending on the HW. Provided that the base system has all the needed components it should be a matter of creating proper config files.
Volunteers..?

Hannes The Hun Wrote:on a sidenote, I'm very well aware you guys do this stuff non-commercial just for the fun of it, and I highly appreciate all efforts you're putting in this awesome stuff. been using XBMC since it was available on the good ole xbox and loved every second of it Big Grin
me too Laugh
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#6
Since this has been brought up, I would like to throw in my 2 cents.. .

If we cannot have an ION specific live image, how about some "official" scripts that you can run after the install to make it more ION/Atom/Nvidia friendly? When I setup my ION, I came here to the forum and there was a plethora of suggestions and tips on how to get it running, but it was so hard to figure out what was good advise and what was crap. If we could get some scripts that are "developer approved", we may be able to eliminate a lot of the repeat questions and also prevent users from damaging their systems (such as from sharing modelines.)

Of course, you could also have scripts setup for other hardware also, such as for AMD users that disables the CPU throttling.

One other request, and this may just be something I'm doing wrong, but when I use UNETBOOTIN to get the Live image onto my USB Flash Drive I have to do it 3-4 times before the image actually boots. Sometimes it'll start to boot and then hang, then after trying again it crashes right after selecting GPU type, the next time it may get to the XBMC logo and then go right to TTY1, etc...

Is there a way we can get an easier way to apply the image to USB? Maybe include a script with the image that after you run it, you have a complete install with persistant file storeage?
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