[kmfdm515]

hello,

currently there's only two options that i know of when i'm watching an .mkv in English, and there is a scene with non-English dialogue: 1) no subtitles at all, so no clue what is being said, or 2) turn on the default subtitles track, and have to turn the subtitles off again when the English dialogue returns.

is there an option i am missing here? is there any way to have subtitles on only for non-English sections?

thanks.

[sialivi]

You need to find a "forced subtitles" file for the movie.

[un1versal]

Yes, your missing the most important thing.

Not all subtitles are for the foreign parts ONLY, you either find them and use them or create them yourself.

So if you want the subtitles for foreign parts only you have to do some legwork.

XBMC cant do anything about that and there is no workaround, except make them yourself and share with the community in some site like opensubtittles.org or subscene.

uNi

[kmfdm515]

ok, now i understand. thank you for the information.

so, when i choose the option in XBMC to download the subtitles for an .mkv and i get multiple options, it's possible that there will be a "forced" version that is identified as such?

[un1versal]

Probably not, but you can try.

FYI forced subtitles are very likely not what you looking for, because not all forced subtitles are English only..

Forced subtitles are a subtitle (2 types merged into video file or set into mkv with default flag) that is used to define subtitles "burned" into for e.g. a mkv hence they usually called "forced" because you cant remove them from a mkv or you need to remux the mkv and uncheck the default flag if the subtitles are not merged in the video file. Forced subtitles usually show up on screen irrespective of what the palyer preferences are.

While forced subtitles can be associated with foreign parts only, this is by no means the rule since forced subtitles content not always what is "expected".

Only site that I saw that allows search for foreign parts only subs http://www.allsubs.org/search-subtitle/F...ts%20Only/

+1

uNi

[sialivi]

Forced subtitles are a subtitle (2 types merged into video file or set into mkv with default flag) that is used to define subtitles "burned" into for e.g. a mkv hence they usually called "forced" because you cant remove them from a mkv or you need to remux the mkv and uncheck the default flag if the subtitles are not merged in the video file.

Those are not "forced subtitles", they are "hardsubs". Not the same things.

[un1versal]

From handbrake website

Forced Subtitles

With some DVD sources, there is a subtitle track which only displays during foreign language sections of the video. On some titles this is a unique subtitle track in the same language as the main audio track, on others it uses the standard subtitle track in the same language as the main audio track except marks a subset of the subtitles as forced.

It seems neither my understanding or yours are not incorrect but both are right?

Either way Im not going to argue this because no amount of discussion is going to make subtitle websites show a magic selection for foreign parts only if the subtitles are not tagged as such.

uNi

[kmfdm515]

well, that helps. i will try to seek out the foreign-only subs for the movies that i need.

thanks.

[sialivi]

It seems neither my understanding or yours are not incorrect but both are right?

No, the section you quoted only backs my claim that forced subtitles are softsubs. The two types it talks about are both softsubs, unlike subs that are baked into the picture which are hardsubs.

[unexpectedpanda]

I'm having quite the problem with this from a DVD source. In this case the disc is "Wolverine".

Turning on subs results in the descriptive english track being played for those who are hard of hearing. Turning them off gets nothing, even when Japanese is being spoken.

In a regular hardware DVD player with subs turned off, english subs appear only when Japanese is being spoken, similar to the "forced subs" for video files.

I'm running Frodo 12.2 on Windows 7, and would appreciate any help getting XBMC to act as the hardware DVD player does.

[gibxxi]

A lot of DVD's like this will have multiple subtitle streams. It's just a case of choosing the right subtitles to extract when you rip/convert the video. There May be "EN", "JP", and "EN (Hearing Impaired)". The titles of the different subtitles streams probably won't be labelled as I've written here, but there will be a definite "difference" in the naming convention for English Subtitles (on an English language DVD) that are only for certain parts of the movie, and those for hearing impaired people. It really depends on the studio, and who has manufactured/released the DVD.

[unexpectedpanda]

Cheers. I have no intention of ripping or converting the video though. In this case XBMC is being used as a DVD player, playing straight from the commercial DVD.

I've discovered subtitle track 8/9 contains the subtitles I'm looking for (through the audio OSD submenu), but this is a little arcane considering on a hardware DVD player it just works first time, and here it requires around 18 button presses to get the desired result. For my dad who was trying to watch the movie and isn't highly tech literate, it was quite a frustrating usability problem.

Fingers crossed it's fixed in Gotham, or I've just overlooked a global setting somewhere.

[scott967]

IIRC there are some changes relating to the video decoding library (ffmpeg) version used in Gotham vs Frodo. For DVD and BD, there are "subs" which actually are "pictures" that are overlaid onto the main video. On DVD these are called DVDSUB. When the DVD is created, the authoring can create multiple DVDSUBs that can be turned on or off via the DVD menu, and also DVDSUB can be set as "forced" and can't be turned off in the menu. Aside from these DVDSUBs, there also is the possibility of separate sub files. These are text-based and the player has to render the text into the sub that's shown. srt is the most straight-forward, and ssa and ass are extensions of the same basic idea. These independent sub files I suppose are more intended for when a DVD or BD are ripped into a different format that doesn't have the DVDSUB overlay concept.

This is different from "burned in" subs, where in the authoring the sub is combined with the video into a single "picture" which obviously once created you and undo it (or at least not easily).

scott s.
.

[unexpectedpanda]

It's very definitely a separate subtitle track. Windows Media Player automatically shows them correctly when playing from DVD, TotalMedia Theatre does too (and identifies it as a forced track). Both VLC and XBMC require manual selection of the track.

Edit: After some thorough Googling it looks like this has been a long term issue with VLC, there's some sort of flag that identifies a DVD subtitle as being forced that's being ignored with the current DVD libraries. I suspect XBMC shares the same DVD playback code (libdvdnav etc), so it'll have to wait until someone with the right talents codes it in. If only it were me -- but while the code is excellently commented, it's far beyond my capability :|

I decided to dig a bit deeper, and there's definitely a flag being ignored. Handbrake and MakeMKV don't see the subtitle track as any different from the others either, however DVDFab and TMT certainly do:





It looks like this has been raised before with no one taking up the mantle. Looks like I'll have to direct DVDs to an external player instead to get the full functionality.

[munificent]

I am also surprised to discover that there is no built-in way to do this nor any addon that can mimic the functionality. It was a colossal pain when watching Avatar to have to flick between sub tracks for the Navi (sp?) parts.

I am not overly familiar with how one enters a feature request or flags this up, but it can be a real difference maker in several films and I would love to see this addressed.

EDIT: Seems there *is* an addon for this, called Language Preference Manager. Thread is here. Still can't believe this has not been made baseline, however.