[decpvr]

I was curious and wondered if an adapter cable like this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00GAODF...SY200_QL40

Or this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171338367825

Would let me use a GT630 or GT430 with my MSI J1900 motherboard, which only has a PCI-E 1x slot?

It's more for curiosity that I'm asking. My reason is to allow better de-interlacing & scaling than the built-in Intel GPU.

Just wondered if it's possible for the graphics card to still work in this configuration?

[decpvr]

I've bought this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201045744361

I'll give it a test with my GT430, which I intend to pull from my HP Microserver.

I'll try to post an update when I've had a chance to test it.

[live4ever]

Yes it should work fine.

[skylarking]

Such adapter cards should work without issue as long as the graphics card can get the power it needs, but they take up space and there are other ways to get a graphics card working in sucg rigs

During system start, the PCIe protocol allows the card to negotiate how many links it actually requires and the power it needs from the slot. This means that in many instances it may be possible to mechanically modify a x16 card to fit a x1, x4 or x8 PCIe slot. One can simply use a fine toothed hacksaw to mimic the manufacturer slot (between pins 11 and 12) but where to place the 'new' slot obviously depends on what PCIe connector you want it to fit the card into.

In my case, i needed to place a x16 graphics card in a a x8 connector, so i hacked a slot between pins 50, 51 & 51 (being careful not to go too far into the card and cut some internal track i couldn't see). Simply by making my own slot at the required location, i could then insert my XFX GS7600GS into the x8 slot on my Dell server where it has worked without issue for a number of years now. I guess it has worked in part due to being a 30W card which is close enough to the 25W PCIe power limit available for general PCIe slots.

Note that in some instances, there may be issues where the system may not post but the workaround is usually to force the required lanes (presence detect signal) by using a wire pushed into the PCIe connector pins themselves or soldered on teh card. In my case, if i had a post issue i would connect PCIe pins A1 and B48 to force 8 lanes for the x8/x8 PCIe connector i plugged the card into.

On this power issue, there are two types of PCIe slots, general slots which can provide 25W to a card and graphics slots which can provide 75W to a card. Placing a 75W card in a 25W capable slot will not mean that during startup the card can negotiate a higher power usage (as the slot is limited by design (bios?)). Its always safest to stick to a low power 25W cards when you place graphics cards in adapters or mod them to fit lower lane count PCIe slots..

For PCIe pinout details, see http://pinouts.ru/Slots/pci_express_pinout.shtml which should allow you to work out where to cut your slot to fit a specific connector and what presence detect pins to connect should you have post issues with that motherboard/card combo.

Do note that the GT630 comes in a variety of power envelopes and being that you are placing it in a x1 slot, you should try and choose a 25W card. As such i would look at the kepler variant of the GT630 which consume 25W rather than the GT430 which consumes 49W (as you may have issues under high graphics load).

Lastly, since you are reducing the lane count of the graphics card, don't expect it will perform as it would in a x16 slot as you are heavily bandwidth limiting the card, though i doubt it will have any real impact w.r.t. xbmc/htpc uses.

Do run a few benchmarks and let us all know how it performs under load

This Dell server forum thread that has a pic of the modded card and some discussions related to same...

[decpvr]

It looks like the model I purchased has a molex socket for power - so hopefully power requirements shouldn't be an issue.

I did see you can modify the motherboard/card but I really don't fancy taking a hacksaw to a new purchase!

I don't know if I even intend to use it full time. It's just nice to know that option is there in future, if I change my mind.

[skylarking]

Yeah, i noticed the adapter had a molex plug on it but the PCIe protocol requires the card to negotiate its PCIe power draw at startup which means that when using a general PCIe slot, you are limited to 25W (and the adapter can't change that limitation).

Well, that is the theory according to the specs, so if the mobo/bios and card are designed to spec, then there may be issues... If the mobo and/or card ignors the specs, or the card is able to re-apportion where it gets power (by getting more from the aux power connector) then it may work well. But it's impossible to get any design info out of the OEMs.

Like always, simplest thing is to install the hardwareonce you have the bits and run a graphics benchmark, then you'll see if the system copes well. I'm interested to know the results

And i can understand the reluctance to cut a slot in a new card hoping there are no unseen tracks you may damage or simply loose the warranty. Me, i'm not a fan of cutting the back off a PCIe slot as it's a much more difficult than the slot route. Either way is generally not something i'd do on a new purchase but it's another thing cutting a slot in an out of warranty old card or some very cheap new card

Good luck...

[decpvr]

Do note that the GT630 comes in a variety of power envelopes and being that you are placing it in a x1 slot, you should try and choose a 25W card. As such i would look at the kepler variant of the GT630 which consume 25W rather than the GT430 which consumes 49W (as you may have issues under high graphics load).

Would it be a safe bet that any passively cooled GT630 would be Keplar based? Or would I have to do some more searching, based on manufacturer/model?

I was thinking of something like this, for example:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00D8QAQ...SY200_QL40

[skylarking]

One would expect it should tell you on the box
But in these days where everything seems to be dumbed down to buzz words, marketing may not want to highlight one of their current cards may be based on older tech. So you must research...

And it's never safe to assume anything. You can't assume just by having a passive heatsink, a card would be a spacific generation, or that it uses 25W or less. After all, if the desire is there, a passive heatsink can be designed to dissipate the heat produced by any chip. As an example, when size issues aren't critical, you can install a 195W passively cooled Colorful GTX680.

So it's best to do some research.
If you gooogle GT630 you can get to an NVIDIA page and by clicking on specs within the NVIDIA page, you can see that the Kepler variant of GT630 has 384 CUDA cores while the earlier variants have 96 CUDA cores.

Googling "Asus Nvidia GeForce GT 630 Silent 2GB DDR3 Graphics Card" gets you to an ASUS page where you can click specs within that ASUS page and see that this card has 384 CUDA cores.

Thus it's reasonably safe to say that the ASUS card is based on Kepler.

[decpvr]

Thanks, that's kind of what I expected. A bit of research goes a long way ;-).

I apologise as well.

I know a simple google would have led me to the same pages.

It does surprise me when people ask questions they can easily find themselves and now I've just done the exact thing myself! Sorry and thanks again for your help & advice.

The adapter I've ordered has turned up, so when I get a chance, I'll give it a test out with my GT430 and update the results :-)

[decpvr]

Ok, I've managed to have a quick test with my GT430 and it's a no go.

The system will hang on boot, showing only the syslinux text (as it does on some systems when booting OpenElec). But it gets no further than this.

I can get into the bios menu and it displays correctly but there doesn't appear to be any options to do with the PCI-E bus which could help.

It looks like OpenElec recognises the card for audio output, as the options for using nvidia HDMI appear in the sound output options.

I didn't try using the sound output. I may try to give it a test later.

[decpvr]

Tried giving it a quick test to try sound output through my GT430.

This doesn't appear to work either.

I may try installing OpenElec onto a usb stick, whilst my GT430 is in-place & connected to my AVR/TV. I don't know if this will make any difference but I feel it's at least worth a try.

It seems like it should work, as I'm able to access the BIOS screen whilst connected to the GT430 HDMI port. The syslinux page also comes up, as I mentioned before.

If I get a chance to try this, I'll update the results here.

[skylarking]

Hmm, i've heard of systems not posting when downplugging pcie graphics cards (via modding the card or modding the pcie slot) but this does not seem to be your issue so forcing the presence detect logic using a thin wire will likely not help It's a simple thing to try though as long as you don't mix up the pin numbering, see 1/3 down this page for details

It seems like there is something else at play but have you tried the adapter and graphics card in another pc to verify they actually work individually and together?

You could also try some other linux live CD and see if your htpc comes up cleanly? If it does, reinstalling OpenElec may fix the issues.

And this is why i export my library as separate files (nfo's, jpgs) as it makes reinstalling xbmc and recreating the library a breeze without needing to refetch metadata from the internet.

Keep us posted

[decpvr]

Hmm, i've heard of systems not posting when downplugging pcie graphics cards (via modding the card or modding the pcie slot) but this does not seem to be your issue so forcing the presence detect logic using a thin wire will likely not help It's a simple thing to try though as long as you don't mix up the pin numbering, see 1/3 down this page for details

It seems like there is something else at play but have you tried the adapter and graphics card in another pc to verify they actually work individually and together?

You could also try some other linux live CD and see if your htpc comes up cleanly? If it does, reinstalling OpenElec may fix the issues.

And this is why i export my library as separate files (nfo's, jpgs) as it makes reinstalling xbmc and recreating the library a breeze without needing to refetch metadata from the internet.

Keep us posted

I tired a few different bits yesterday - live CD, attempt to re-install OpenElec etc. This was all done with the HDMI cable plugged into my GT430.

Each time it appeared the GT430 didn't want to display anything beyond VGA type resolution. I can view the bios page (plugged into my GT430) and the basic menu selection from a old mythbuntu live-cd. But each time it would not display anything more hi-res.

For example with openelec I would only get the 'syslinux' page displayed - whereas on the motherboard HDMI it shows the (hi-res) openelec install menu.

I know the GT430 works, as it was being used in my HP Microserver (for XBMC!). I can't be sure about the 1x -> 16x riser, but as I can see *something* from the GT430 I would think so. I know that doesn't count for much though ;-).

I can try a couple of things:

1, The same setup in my Microserver - it has a PCI-E 1x slot. I can try the same configuration to see if it behaves differently. That should hopefully eliminate the riser adapter.

2, Presence detect forcing. After reading that article about down-plugging, using a wire to link the pins, it sounds like it might be worth a try on my MSI 1900 motherboard.

3, Giving up and buying one of these: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Club-3D-CGAX-645...ds=Club+3D

It looks like it should be supported by Openelec/XBMC and at least give HD-Audio bitstreaming & hopefully decent de-interlacing.

It doesn't look like there's any newer firmware for my MSI motherboard and I can't see any options for disabling the on-board graphics.

I don't think re-installing OpenElec, with my cable plugged into the on-board HDMI would make any difference, would it?

[skylarking]

If you are unsure if your hardware works, best to move your x1/x16 adapter and your graphics card to a desktop PC and actually test that your hardware indeed works
Try the adapter and card in the x16 slot of a desktop as well as the 1x slot of the same desktop as this will/may highlight some issues.
And it would be even more relevant if you have access to an MSI desktop using a similar generation of hardware/bios as your results should be directly transferable to the MSI J1900 motherboard.
You may have to lean on a friend if you don't have a 'normal' desktop to use for such tests...

Note, a quick look at the MSI JI900 details specs page indicated the PCIe slot is version 2.0.
Hopefully the graphics card you purchased is PCIe 2.0 compliant (though i doubt this is the cause).

Unfortunately further down the details specs page, there is cryptic comment stating:

MSI Reminds You...
• The graphic output can only work with CPUs with GPUs core inside.

But i'm not sure what relevance this above comment has as the CPU is soldered on the board so it's a "you get what you get" with respect to CPU graphics.
So does MSI really mean that the BIOS has locked down the graphics subsystem and as such BIOS will not allow you to disable the integrated graphics?

Which brings me to the question, does the BIOS have an option to disable integrated graphics?
If there is no BIOS option to disable integrated graphicst, then you may have issues as the PCIe graphics may simply not work (or work oddly?) while the integrated graphics is still trying to do its thing...

So forcing the lane count using a wire may not help (as i mentioned earlier) nbut as it's simple to do, try placing the wire on the x16 side of your adapter (where the graphics card plugs in) and see if that helps.
If not, then try placing it on the motherboard x1 connector (where the adapter plugs in) and see if that helps.
I don't think it would be wise to place it on both sides of the adapter but who knows in such situations...

In reality, i suspect it's the motherboard BIOS that is the issue in which case buying another graphics card may not help to solve the problem.

[decpvr]

I did try the wire link trick on the motherboard side with no luck.

There's no option for disabling on-board graphics - which is where I think the issue lies.

I've managed to get much better deinterlacing quality with the onboard GPU by using software playback. So I'm not too bothered about progressing further with this.

The card I was testing with I had bought a while ago and was using in my Microserver - so no loss there.

Thanks for your help & advice but I think this is where I'll end with this thread.

It was only a proof-of-concept idea and now I've found decent software deinterlacing (for my needs) I don't need to waste any more time on this. Especially as it looks like a dead end!

Thanks again. Hopefully this may be of use to anyone else considering something similar?