Should I buy 2GB Ram/16GB Internal S905
#1
I've been browsing some android boxes and this is very interesting. HDMI 2.0, 2GB or Ram 16 of Internal Storage and best of all, S905. Should I bite on this? Are their firmware updates any good? I'm coming from a minix x8-h that doesn't really have any good update support or custom anything.

Beelink M18 Amlogic S905
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#2
Cheap with Android equals virtually no Firmware support and you will likely need to spend time over on Freaktab Website down the line. It will also come "Fully Loaded" with illegal Banned Kodi addons which means not support here on the Kodi forums here either unless you uninstall all this crap straight away.

This device is so new there are bugs aplenty. Its no where near a mature platform like the X8-H.

There is an existing thread on this device.

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=249764

I have both a S812-H and a S905 both running Android Lollipop, speed wise they are about the same. The S905 is a bit quicker when saving stuff.
Android Lollipop is nicer than Android KitKat and runs faster as well.

Do you have a 4K HDMI 2.0 TV for 10-bit ?
Also Kodi cannot output 10-bit video. 8-bit only.

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#3
I'm a upgrader so I'll have a 4K tv this year and I'm sure Kodi will support 10-bit this year. I basically need the best box under $100 right now. The alternative box I had in mind was this

http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart...59701.html
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#4
That second box, the one who's name shall not be mentioned contains an Open Source GPL2 violating version of XBMC/Kodi code on it.

Basically the code being used on it is done by volunteers developers here on the Kodi project and Tronsmart and their associate VidOn are selling it for a profit and giving nothing at all back to the Kodi community at all as the legally have to do. We take a very dim view of companies such as this.

You can read all about the XBMC violation version concerned here:
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=252356

Please don't bring up this device again on the Kodi forums.

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#5
Well since those are out of the picture...What's actually accepted that has a S905? I like stock Android or anything that has a pleasing launcher. I like to customized and install Kodi to my liking from the box.
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#6
Really those questions about S905, DIY Android, ROM's, Firmware should be asked over on the Freaktab Forums where all the hacks and customisations on these sort of Android devices resides:

You will get far more detailed information over there on recently released S905 AMLogic devices.:
http://freaktab.com/forum/tv-player-supp...ayers/s905

Personally, I find its never a good idea to buy the first of anything a be a little patient, as there will be better AMLogic SoC's released this year, by the time the S905M comes out you will have a stable decent platform platform.

http://www.cnx-software.com/2015/12/17/a...-and-more/

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#7
(2016-01-02, 16:23)wrxtasy Wrote: Personally, I find its never a good idea to buy the first of anything a be a little patient, as there will be better AMLogic SoC's released this year, by the time the S905M comes out you will have a stable decent platform platform.

Problem with that is by the time a super stable and supported platform comes out for a specific SoC, its already outdated by a few generations. That's what is keeping me back from buying WeTeK core...it just came out, and it sure isn't cheap and yet it's SoC is already last generation and I'm sure in 4-5 months I'll regret investing that much money in hardware that had already one foot out the door on release.
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#8
(2016-01-02, 19:32)XperImenT Wrote:
(2016-01-02, 16:23)wrxtasy Wrote: Personally, I find its never a good idea to buy the first of anything a be a little patient, as there will be better AMLogic SoC's released this year, by the time the S905M comes out you will have a stable decent platform platform.

Problem with that is by the time a super stable and supported platform comes out for a specific SoC, its already outdated by a few generations. That's what is keeping me back from buying WeTeK core...it just came out, and it sure isn't cheap and yet it's SoC is already last generation and I'm sure in 4-5 months I'll regret investing that much money in hardware that had already one foot out the door on release.

Do you want the latest hardware for bragging rights, or a decent Kodi experience? The latest hardware is only the latest hardware for a couple of months anyway. You either want something that meets your needs in media playback terms, or you don't. Do your playback needs change every few months?

Personally mine haven't change hugely for about 6 or 7 years... H264 1080i with decent deinterlacing, MPEG2 SD with decent deinterlacing, H264/VC-1/MPEG2 1080i/p at Blu-ray quality, and HD Audio bitstreaming, along with multichannel PCM for FLAC, WAV, AAC multichannel etc. (Though I'm happy with HD Audio losslessly decoded to PCM if I can't bitstream)

The only recent change for me was getting a 3D UHD set, so 3D and UHD content are beginning to be on the radar, but I'm happy to wait for the dust to settle a bit on UHD playback (HDMI 2.0 and 10-bit HEVC support properly implemented on a stable platform) before I pull the trigger.

Buy early, buy twice...
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#9
(2016-01-03, 12:03)noggin Wrote:
(2016-01-02, 19:32)XperImenT Wrote:
(2016-01-02, 16:23)wrxtasy Wrote: Personally, I find its never a good idea to buy the first of anything a be a little patient, as there will be better AMLogic SoC's released this year, by the time the S905M comes out you will have a stable decent platform platform.

Problem with that is by the time a super stable and supported platform comes out for a specific SoC, its already outdated by a few generations. That's what is keeping me back from buying WeTeK core...it just came out, and it sure isn't cheap and yet it's SoC is already last generation and I'm sure in 4-5 months I'll regret investing that much money in hardware that had already one foot out the door on release.

Do you want the latest hardware for bragging rights, or a decent Kodi experience? The latest hardware is only the latest hardware for a couple of months anyway. You either want something that meets your needs in media playback terms, or you don't. Do your playback needs change every few months?

I don't care about bragging rights but I do care about getting what i pay for. If i was paying $50 bux then sure I'd be happy with not having the latest hardware but when I am paying >$100 for a stream box, it's a bit irritating for it to have outdated hardware before it even gets released, especially when $50 boxes are putting in newer SoCs (Yes I know their support sucks). When $50 boxes have better specs than $130 WeTek core (which indicates the massive profit margin they're gunning for), "better support" alone isn't going to justify tripling the price. They could have released it with S905 and provide a lot of support for it or with their premium price point, they could have added more RAM that is closer to Shield's.
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#10
Thats the problem, buying a box by just exclusively looking at the tech specs alone. Very common Rookie mistake.
If you are a DIY'er then go for the cheap Stuff and spend time over on Freaktab playing with Firmware and tinkering.
We are not knocking you for your decision if this is what you want to do.

The WeTek Core caters to a different Market to all these cheap AMLogic S905 clone devices. You pay for Widevine Level 1 DRM for 1080p streaming video like Netflix. Firmware support. Custom Apps from Skilled Android developers and the list goes on and on.

MINIX is even more expensive.

The only issue I have is when potential Newb purchasers get suckered in by all the Marketing Bullshit hype and then find out a bunch of stuff does not work on the device they have just purchased and they have no idea how to fix it and get no support from the seller or manufacturer.
This is Very common with brand new SoC's from Asian sellers.

These Android sellers are notorious for this and will even list just Tech Specs on a device as though it can play absolutely everything out of the box. Its an absolute Con job.

Just for info, the AMLogic S905M will support HDMI2.0a which means High Dynamic Range:
http://www.cnet.com/au/news/what-is-hdmi-2-0a/

It will also support VP9, the Open Source codec for 4K Youtube at 60Hz
http://youtube-eng.blogspot.com.au/2015/...utube.html

I believe this AMLogic S905M SoC is just around the corner too.

If you must buy a S905 now, buy it cheap so you can upgrade and not loose a lot of coin when the superior S905M comes out.

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#11
(2016-01-03, 18:22)wrxtasy Wrote: Thats the problem, buying a box by just exclusively looking at the tech specs alone. Very common Rookie mistake.

But that's my point... at $130 price point, i shouldn't have to pick support over hardware...both need to be present. If less recognized makers can pack 2GB and S905 for $50, then my $130 box should atleast have that AND the support..its close to 3 times the price..the least it can to is to match the hardware.
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#12
(2016-01-03, 17:54)XperImenT Wrote: I don't care about bragging rights but I do care about getting what i pay for. If i was paying $50 bux then sure I'd be happy with not having the latest hardware but when I am paying >$100 for a stream box, it's a bit irritating for it to have outdated hardware before it even gets released, especially when $50 boxes are putting in newer SoCs (Yes I know their support sucks). When $50 boxes have better specs than $130 WeTek core (which indicates the massive profit margin they're gunning for), "better support" alone isn't going to justify tripling the price. They could have released it with S905 and provide a lot of support for it or with their premium price point, they could have added more RAM that is closer to Shield's.

You are paying for both hardware and software (including continuing support and software development) - you can't remove the value of software from the equation. It isn't like buying a consumer appliance like a fridge or a basic TV, where what you walk out of the shop is what you end up with for the life of the product. With a media player you are also expecting support in terms of bug fixes, continued support for new functionality (or enabling functionality that is present in the hardware but not initially supported in the software)

Sure there are boxes with better hardware specs around than some platforms, but those hardware specs are pointless without decent support (no point having hardware that does 3D and HD Audio if there isn't support for Kodi using it...). And manufacturers who don't care about support and delivering a high quality product will usually ship first, as they'll chuck pretty much any reference build on their box, or whatever they can to get it out of the door, and then that's it. No support, no bug fixes and so you end up with a cheap box, with newer hardware that doesn't do as good a job.

Because they don't have a decent in-house support team and software developers (in some cases they'll just rip off other people's work...) they'll also have lower costs, so be able to sell it cheaper.

The main reason that the boxes that are popular here have slightly older SoCs, and come from manufacturers who don't always hit the market first or cheapest, precisely for this reason. It takes a while to iron out the bugs and properly engineer features. The Raspberry Pi and Pi 2 are still developing new functionality and improved features. The C1/C1+ similarly. Now the Wetek Core.
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#13
(2016-01-03, 18:54)XperImenT Wrote:
(2016-01-03, 18:22)wrxtasy Wrote: Thats the problem, buying a box by just exclusively looking at the tech specs alone. Very common Rookie mistake.

But that's my point... at $130 price point, i shouldn't have to pick support over hardware...both need to be present. If less recognized makers can pack 2GB and S905 for $50, then my $130 box should atleast have that AND the support..its close to 3 times the price..the least it can to is to match the hardware.

Yep - but new hardware arrives all the time. If you take a reference design, build it and ship it with a basic, thrown together OS, and poor functionality you can do that quickly and for a low price point. If you want decent OS support, full support for the hardware, and code that is specifically optimised for the platform, and incorporates bug fixes from the SoC manufacturer in new and continued builds, then that costs money and takes time.

You can usually have two of the following three things in life :

Good (i.e. the newest hardware)
Quick (i.e. get it as soon as it launches)
Cheap (i.e. get it at a low price point)

You seldom get all three.
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#14
(2016-01-03, 19:16)noggin Wrote: If you take a reference design, build it and ship it with a basic, thrown together OS, and poor functionality you can do that quickly and for a low price point. If you want decent OS support, full support for the hardware, and code that is specifically optimised for the platform, and incorporates bug fixes from the SoC manufacturer in new and continued builds, then that costs money and takes time.

That's a fair point which i think points to the general problem that none of these TV box manufacturers are optimized to provide stable platform that utilizes latest technology as they're all small chinese companies lacking adequate manpower to quickly build and test platforms and are running a few generations behind just to provide something stable. To me, in this day and age, having two options of either 1) use latest technology with no support 2) run outdated hardware in the hope of stability and support is a bit silly

In my opinion one should either buy $50 boxes that use latest hardware and be a DIY user or shell out the extra money and go with a big company that can afford to offer stable platforms + top notch hardware and buy NVIDIA Shield. I can't find logic in paying $130 in a device (ie. WeteK) that is outdated on launch day just because they continue to iron out the bugs associated with their outdated hardware.
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#15
If a device runs kodi well and costs $130 and has good support from the manufacturer why does it matter that the hardware dates from 6 months ago rather than last Tuesday?

And if a device doesn't run kodi well and doesn't have good support why does it matter that it has the latest fastest newest hardware?

If there's something out there for $50 with great support that works well then buy it.
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