XBMC Design Logic?
#1
So first of all, I love XBMC--it is a work of art.

However, I have noticed a couple things in its design that feel a little convoluted to me. I'm merely posing these ideas for anyone who would want to use them--I'm not asking for anyone to do anything about it. However, I wouldn't mind hearing what people think.




1) The Video Library and the Up-Directory button.

I believe that most people probably both
a) have two separate buttons programmed for their remote, one to "escape" and close the whole library (thus going to the home screen most likely), and another button that is needed to go up a directory, like from a season folder to a show directory in TV.

b) use their video library almost exclusively for Movies, and TV (rather than other relatively obscure categories like documentaries, etc.) and that they access these libraries directly from buttons that link directly to the libraries from the home screen.

Therefore, when the back button is used from the list of TV shows or Movies (particularly in Library mode), it should return to the home screen, rather than revealing a list of sources that do not belong in the category selected originally from the home screen. This prevents using convoluted pathways to reach a directory, and increases the sense of a real physical location.

The same is true of sorting options. The option to sort by category (genre, actors, etc) should be presented as such, rather than as a parent directory which violates the logic of the location of the library as being accessed directly from the home screen.

2) "Library Mode" itself.

XBMC's interface employs this "2-versions of the same location" idea to differentiate between seeing a cleaned up "cataloged" presentation of all the metadata associated with a particular item, and seeing what is actually in the folder (i.e. file names like s01e01 rather than show titles).

While both views are very useful, I think that this idea of some strange alternate mode of viewing the same content is kind of a convoluted way of thinking about it. Instead, the same functionality could be a achieved by presenting the file mode as a completely separate location, accessed separately from the library, and NOT toggled between. This is especially true, considering as of now, when you switch from library mode to file mode, it drops you in the last location viewed in file mode, rather than the same directory you are viewing in library mode, which feels illogical and disorienting.

3) "Enabled Addons"

Are these addons really all "Enabled"? For example, under Skins in "Enabled Addons," it lists all skins "installed", but I don't think they would all be described as "Enabled" because that is more like what is done from the appearance settings. The same is true of many addons that need to be separately "enabled" for use in some settings menu.

Also, since some skins include an "addons" button on the home screen, it would be good to be able to launch addons from the enabled addons list. This is especially true if the only other way to do it was through a separated file mode as described previously.

To summarize, the main idea in the first 2 points is to streamline the experience to flow FROM THE HOME SCREEN, and reduce the ability for the user to take unexpected tangents through illogical pathways.

(For example, viewing TV Library, and switching to File mode only to be dropped off in file mode of Movies because it was the last thing viewed in file mode--or even by backing out to the parent videos directory and accessing movies from there, when it could just be done from the home screen--why need a separate location?)


The 3rd thing is just my opinion about wording.


Anyway, just some stuff I thought someone might find interesting/agree with. Let me know what you think.
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#2
1
a) No, imo only 6 buttons should be required (up, down, left right, select, back). Everything else should be optional. Also, I think, having a "parent folder" and a "back" button will tend to confuse novices and having a single "back" button is more in line with other consumer devices.
b) I don't believe so as evidenced by the number of posts in this forum from people wanting to separate out their documentaries, home videos, kids movies, etc.

In any case what you're experiencing is a skin/keymap issue. For (a) you can change the keymap so that hitting "back" will take you back to the home screen/whatever and have a separate key for "ParentDir". For (b), the skin controls whether to return to the home screen after going back from where you started or not.

(2) is also a skin issue as some skins allow a home screen icon for "videos" (file mode view) + icons for movies and tv shows (library view).
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#3
My own preference is to keep separate Backup and Home buttons because there are times I do want to step back a page as well as times when I just want the home page.

In any case you can very easily change the key mappings to make Back and Escape both go to the home page or indeed do anything you want. Well, maybe "very easily" is an overstatement, but many hereabouts would be happy to explain how to do it.

JR
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#4
@jhsrennie and marirs: 1) Two buttons already exist in keymapping (backspace vs escape) and both are pretty essential--I can't imagine anyone is using only a backup button, and hitting it like 4 times just to get back to the home screen. The same is true of clicking the double dots using only the essential 6 navigational buttons you mention.

Neither of these things are keymap/skin issues. It is not possible to do what I am talking about through either. The point is, you NEED an up-directory button to, for example, get out of a season folder of a show and back into the main folder. If you mapped that button to escape it would take you all the way back home.

And while skins control where you go when you press escape, they don't prevent illogical tangents using the backup directory button.

My point is creating a logical flow that mimics the way physical reality works.

The way XBMC works now, it is like going down a hallway to enter a room, but when you want to leave the room, you have to walk through 3 more rooms to get back to the hallway, even though you didn't have to walk through them to get in there to begin with. UNLESS you click your heels together to go back to the home screen. The option to use inefficient and illogical paths should be eliminated because people DO confuse the backup directory and the escape button.

The solution is not to change the buttons, but to require only one one button because the flow is tighter.
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#5
branlr Wrote:-I can't imagine anyone is using only a backup button, and hitting it like 4 times just to get back to the home screen.
I do. But I guess it depends on what kind of controller one is using. Clicking on the back button a couple of times in quick succession takes me less than half a second. Since I'm using a small wireless keyboard as a remote (dinovo mini) this is much more practical than going for another key.

Quote:The same is true of clicking the double dots using only the essential 6 navigational buttons you mention.
It takes me way more time to scroll to the top of a list just to be able to press the dots than it takes me to just press back. And I need to perform that action very frequently.

Quote:Neither of these things are keymap/skin issues. It is not possible to do what I am talking about through either.
Actually it is possible to do by keymap or skin. And it's not difficult either.

Quote:My point is creating a logical flow that mimics the way physical reality works.
But where or when has it been determined that virtual situations should mimic physical reality? I understand what you're trying to say, but they're just not the same thing. In real life you don't tap or click on your files to open them either Wink
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#6
I have Back and Home both mapped on every remote I have.

The only thing I could see doing different is a short vs long press (Like on the appleTV Remote) where a short press of Back goes home, a long press takes you back to Genres, title, actor, year, etc.)
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#7
basically what it boils down to is skins. they all handle buttons and menus differently.

you should look into coding and code up your own skin or mod a skin to your liking.

-=Jason=-
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#8
Agreed on point 1, maybe not the premise but the point about backing out from library when accessed it from home node (which is how I access it) should get you back into home.

Point 2 also agreed, its planned but we just haven't have time for it yet (new library is in the roadmap, not just scheduled).
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#9
Thanks topfs2! Awesome to hear!

@Jeroen: I understand what you are saying about "virtual situations don't have to mimic physical reality," but I think when a program's design feels "natural" and "intuitive", it is this mimicry that achieves the effect. Our brains' logic evolved around the causal and temporal continuity of physical reality, and from a design standpoint, software should operate this way--especially if it is a GUI, which is, in fact, a virtual representation of something physical, which should therefore assume the continuity of the physical world.

I think that this is a solid argument which is as objective as an opinion can be. I also believe this sort of design philosophy is helpful to keep in mind, especially if you are a skinner.
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#10
Your issues sound a lot like my issues that I pointed out in the thread I started (http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?p=6...post650464). The library mode/file mode thing is convoluted to be sure.

And I haven't yet worked out how to display my TV Shows and Movies in Library Mode and yet my home movies in file mode (because there is no library mode for unknown content... which is fair enough.). The easiest solution would surely be for there to be a content type of 'home movies', or 'mixed' or 'other' that would allow xbmc to know that there's no point trying to scrape info for these files but instead make thumbnails and use file information to show extra info about the files.

But reading above that you can make links from the home page to non library folders on a per skin basis makes me want to go and look at refocus (my current beautiful skin of choice) to see how that might work.
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#11
I dunno what skin you're using but almost all of them handle 1 exactly as you expect: Click on "Movies" on the home page and you'll see a list of movies. Click "Back" on the remote and you'll be back on the home page.

Same thing for "TV shows", "Music Videos", "Addons" etc.

The only way you can get to the base "library" nodes is to go up a directory, by clicking on the ".." item (if you have it enabled) or by specifically going into the base node from the home page.

As for general navigation, IMO we need 8 buttons: The 4 directions, Select, Back, Menu and a dedicated "Home" button. Note that this "Home" button is quite different than "Escape" (though in many cases in XBMC it is the same). IMO this would de-confuse a lot of the escape/back issues that folk have.

Cheers,
Jonathan
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Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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#12
jmarshall Wrote:As for general navigation, IMO we need 8 buttons:

... which leads me to wonder whether anyone has thought about developing specifications for an 'official' xbmc remote and maybe just leaving it out there? Seems to be Chinese factories that could develop such a thing in no time flat.
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#13
If someone does a mockup I'm sure we'll be happy to put it on the website "this is the perfect remote for XBMC". Most of us aren't designers - we can do the spec, but I'm sure some of the skinning folk could work on making something look good.

Though IMO there'd be at least 2 such "perfect" remotes - one that keeps things simple, and one more useful for the PVR/universal crowd (necessarily would have a few more buttons - eg numeric buttons, red/yellow/green/blue etc.)

Obviously they should both have a keyboard on the back of 'em, with a gyro so it knows which way up it is and activate appropriately. The nxyboard is quite a nice remote, given it hasn't been designed for XBMC specifically.

Cheers,
Jonathan
Always read the XBMC online-manual, FAQ and search the forum before posting.
Do not e-mail XBMC-Team members directly asking for support. Read/follow the forum rules.
For troubleshooting and bug reporting please make sure you read this first.


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#14
spoco2 Wrote:Your issues sound a lot like my issues that I pointed out in the thread I started (http://forum.xbmc.org/showthread.php?p=6...post650464). The library mode/file mode thing is convoluted to be sure.

And I haven't yet worked out how to display my TV Shows and Movies in Library Mode and yet my home movies in file mode (because there is no library mode for unknown content... which is fair enough.). The easiest solution would surely be for there to be a content type of 'home movies', or 'mixed' or 'other' that would allow xbmc to know that there's no point trying to scrape info for these files but instead make thumbnails and use file information to show extra info about the files.

But reading above that you can make links from the home page to non library folders on a per skin basis makes me want to go and look at refocus (my current beautiful skin of choice) to see how that might work.

I use Confluence as my skin and there are seperate buttons on the home screen for 'Movies', 'Tv Shows' and 'Videos'.
When I click on 'Tv Shows' or 'Movies' they show up with all the Posters and fanart.
When I click 'Videos' my home movies show up as a list of files and folders.

Works perfect.
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