[RAHRL]

you misunderstood the request, CrystalP would like a sample of the video in question so they can test it on their system

1. cut a chunk out of the video file, CrystalP said 30 seconds or so - https://www.simplehelp.net/2019/11/27/ho...-mkv-file/
2. verify it exhibits the behavior you're describing
3. upload somewhere for CrystalP - google drive, https://mega.nz something like that
4. paste a link here for them to test it on their system

Sorry for the misunderstanding, very silly of me. I have made the 30s fragment and it exhibits the described behaviour.

The download link (valid 3 days from now) is:

Download link WeTransfer

[RAHRL]

When I look with MKVMerge -J, it shows that all subtitle tracks are enabled, with default-flag = off and forced-flag = off.

That is not what the log shows.
Line 741... Stream #0:2(swe): Subtitle: dvd_subtitle, 720x576 (default)

Load your video file into mkvToolNix and edit the flag...

I don't know what to say ... You are right and when I look with MKVmerge -J it says the same thing: Swedish subtitles have default flag = true.

The only explanation I have is that I have actually made two rips. The MKVmerge -J that I posted was of the first rip. The Kodi log was on the second rip. I had to do that because I alterede the first rip with MKVpropedit and I did not want to cause the confusion (that I now created).
I am not aware that I did anything different during the second rip, but it is entirely possible I have used one of my other DVD-readers.

You are 100% right with your comment, but, even as Swedish subtitles are default, it still does not explain why I can't switch them off.

[RAHRL]

When I look with MKVMerge -J, it shows that all subtitle tracks are enabled, with default-flag = off and forced-flag = off.

That is not what the log shows.
Line 741... Stream #0:2(swe): Subtitle: dvd_subtitle, 720x576 (default)

Load your video file into mkvToolNix and edit the flag...

I don't know what to say ... You are right and when I look with MKVmerge -J it says the same thing: Swedish subtitles have default flag = true.

The only explanation I have is that I have actually made two rips. The MKVmerge -J that I posted was of the first rip. The Kodi log was on the second rip. I had to do that because I alterede the first rip with MKVpropedit and I did not want to cause the confusion (that I now created).
I am not aware that I did anything different during the second rip, but it is entirely possible I have used one of my other DVD-readers.

You are 100% right with your comment, but, even as Swedish subtitles are default, it still does not explain why I can't switch them off.

I have set the default flag of the Swedish subtitle track = false with:

mkvpropedit --edit track1 --default=0 fragment.mkv

checked it with MKVmerge -J which confirms the flag is set to false

but the behaviour of Kodi is the same. It still picks the Swedish subtitles and it still is not listening to the enable subtitle toggle switch.

[Karellen]

I don't know what to say ... You are right and when I look with MKVmerge -J it says the same thing: Swedish subtitles have default flag = true.

No problems. Sometimes a second pair of eyes is needed.
If you set it to default=false, can you disable the subtitles?

As for it not disabling, I don't really know what is normal for "default" subtitles. Maybe it is like audio and video, which you also cannot disable?

[RAHRL]

I don't know what to say ... You are right and when I look with MKVmerge -J it says the same thing: Swedish subtitles have default flag = true.

No problems. Sometimes a second pair of eyes is needed.
If you set it to default=false, can you disable the subtitles?

As for it not disabling, I don't really know what is normal for "default" subtitles. Maybe it is like audio and video, which you also cannot disable?

That was what I was trying to tell you. Even when I turn off the default flag for the Swedish subtitles with MKVpropedit, I am not able to turn off the subtitles in Kodi. 

But VLC Player can do it using the same mkv file, no matter the value of the default flag.

You can try yourself, as I have posted a link to a 30s video fragment. The link is valid for two more days.

[CrystalP]

issue confirmed with the test file.

[Karellen]

That Swedish subtitle track is a dvd sub file, and each subtitle line in the file has the forced flag enabled.

[CrystalP]

How?

[Karellen]

How?

Yea, you won't see it there as it is embedded in the .sub file.
Do you have Subtitle Edit installed?... https://github.com/SubtitleEdit/subtitleedit

I've extracted the subs from the mkv file using gMKVExtract
Opening the .sub file in Subtitle Edit, there is a checkbox for "Show only forced subtitles". If there were no forced subtitles, that box would be greyed out, but I am able to check it, and all the subtitles still display, indicating they all have the forced flag.

[RAHRL]

That Swedish subtitle track is a dvd sub file, and each subtitle line in the file has the forced flag enabled.

Now you've got me confused about the flags. All 4 subtitle tracks in the video are VOBSUB, i.e. images with timestamps.

To be sure, I ripped the same movie a third time with the following result: Each subtitle track is assigned flag (enable=true) and flags (default, forced = false), except the Swedish subtitle track, that gets (flag default = true).

Using the same MKV file VLC Player is able to turn off subtitles completely, while Kodi won't. For some unknown reason Kodi insists on displaying a subtitle, and I can't turn it off.

I have tried changing the flags of the subtitle tracks with MKVPropedit as follows:
1. Changing the default flag for the Swedish subtitle to (default=false). Made no difference for Kodi nor for VLC Player.
2. Changing the language name of the Swedish subtitle from from (swe) to (eng). In that case Kodi won't pick that subtitle track (id=2) anymore. Instead it goes to the next subtitle track (id=3). I previously wrote that was Danish, but it probably is Norwegian because that is the next in line. The result is about the same, I cannot turn that subtitle off in Kodi.
2. Changing the enable flag to (enable=false). Made no difference. Don't know where that flag is for anyway. 

Probably the mkvmerge -J and MediaInfo that I posted earlier was not on the untouched file, I already altered that unintentionally, so that explains why the deafult flag was not on in the MKVmerge -J output, but was there in the Kodi log (which was on the second rip). Sorry about that.

Anyway, even if the subtitle tracks were forced (which they are not immediately after ripping), this forcing only applies to the secondary language in the movie. But there is no secondary language in the 30s fragment, and probably not in the whole movie.

A forcing flag on a subtitle does not mean it is an integral subtitle for the primary language that can't be turned off. It is only meant for parts of the movie where a secondary language is spoken and only at that moment subtitles can not be turned off.   

So I am kind of stuck here. I have posted a 30s fragment that anybody can download and play with Kodi and VLC Player, anybody can modify with MKVPropedit, so the problem is replicatable, as confirmed. Now for the solution, because I cannot imagine this is expected behaviour.
The only workaround that I can think off is removing all subtitle tracks (demuxing) which I'd rather not do, because it takes time and because I don't have a 100% copy of the disc anymore.

There is other thing I'd like to add which might or might not help. I have tried playing the DVD directly with VLC Player. When I did that I noticed the DVD menu does not have a menu option (in the DVD menu) to turn off subtitles. I can only play the DVD after I selected one of the subtitle languages. I found that strange and I wonder if that could have impact on the MKV file that is prodcuced by MakeMKV and what MKV attributes are involved.

[Karellen]

I have tried changing the flags of the subtitle tracks with MKVPropedit as follows:

Forget any MKV tools, they won't work with this. MKV tools work on the container, but these flags are embedded in the Stream.

In fact, all the subtitles streams in your sample file are marked with embedded flags as Forced. Swedish is the one popping up because it is the first subtitle stream in the list.
You can see that if you follow my steps above.

I've actually come across this myself. Some DVD's and Bluray releases come with a subtitle stream that is combined general and forced subtitles. Not sure why it is done this way.

[RAHRL]

I have tried changing the flags of the subtitle tracks with MKVPropedit as follows:

Forget any MKV tools, they won't work with this. MKV tools work on the container, but these flags are embedded in the Stream.

In fact, all the subtitles streams in your sample file are marked with embedded flags as Forced. Swedish is the one popping up because it is the first subtitle stream in the list.
You can see that if you follow my steps above.

I've actually come across this myself. Some DVD's and Bluray releases come with a subtitle stream that is combined general and forced subtitles. Not sure why it is done this way.

OK, I think I understand what you mean. The flags on the subtitle container do not matter, because somewhere inside in the subtitle stream, there is another forced flag that is set to true. But still 2 questions remain:

1. Why is VLC Player handling it differently, probably looking at the container flags, while Kodi is looking inside the subtitle stream?
2. What can I do on the mkv file, e.g. with SubtitleEdit, Shotcut or some other tool to avoid this from happening?

[RAHRL]

BTW, this is the first part of the IDX file of the Swedish subtitle track that I extracted using MKVExtract. Sorry if I say so, but it not look very forced to me:

# VobSub index file, v7 (do not modify this line!)
# 
# This index block was generated by MakeMKV v1.17.8 win(x64-release)
# which has no relation to VobSub software. The first
# line above is present for compatibility reasons.
# 
size: 720x576
org: 0, 0
alpha: 100%
smooth: OFF
fadein/out: 50, 50
align: OFF at LEFT TOP
time offset: 0
forced subs: OFF
langidx: 0
palette: d03a06, 000000, 0100ca, e5e5e5, e0bdd7, b7d2dd, b8e0bc, e1ff18, d414c9, d9ab0e, 8400cf, 0fbc85, 000070, 9668a0, 92b06d, 713638
# 
# end

id: no, index: 0
timestamp: 00:00:22:560, filepos: 000000000
timestamp: 00:02:24:520, filepos: 000001000
timestamp: 00:02:46:760, filepos: 000001800
timestamp: 00:02:52:840, filepos: 000002800
timestamp: 00:02:59:160, filepos: 000004000

[RAHRL]

How sure are you of the correct workings of this checkbox in SubtitleEdit?

[Karellen]

The flags on the subtitle container do not matter, because somewhere inside in the subtitle stream, there is another forced flag that is set to true

Correct.

Why is VLC Player handling it differently, probably looking at the container flags, while Kodi is looking inside the subtitle stream?

@CrystalP has stated that Kodi's behaviour is not correct. At a guess, I would say that this particular scenario was overlooked. But having all subtitle streams marked as forced is not correct either, which has revealed this issue. It is strange that the DVD was released that way.

What can I do on the mkv file, e.g. with SubtitleEdit, Shotcut or some other tool to avoid this from happening?

Not an easy one. I don't know of any tool that can directly edit those embedded flags.
You would need to extract the vobsub streams, then convert them to text based subtitles and package them back into the mkv file.
Subtitle Edit can do the conversion.

How sure are you of the correct workings of this checkbox in SubtitleEdit?

Very. You need to look at each subtitle line, not the whole file. You can have a file that is marked as forced=false but still contain subtitle strings that are forced=true.
Have a look at this subtitle file...
It is the bluray sup file from the movie Angels & Demons. It contains both general and forced subtitles. Toggling the "Show forced subtitles" will hide and unhide all non-forced subtitles. So the file is most likely marked as forced=false, but individual strings are true.