2016-01-21, 03:40
Could be like the realtek 1186 chipset it would play 10bit h264 but would just hack off any of the extra bits when it actually outputted video.
2016-01-21, 04:12
(2016-01-21, 02:38)noggin Wrote: My WDTV Live does 4:2:2 MPEG2 (which was a big surprise I found out by accident). I've seldom found any hardware outside the broadcast sphere that does 4:2:2 anything...Is 4:2:2 noticeably good? Have you ever seen 4:4:4? If so, Do you see any difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2?
2016-01-21, 04:24
(2016-01-20, 18:29)Alan BStard Wrote:(2016-01-20, 09:40)fritsch Wrote: No.
"No" as in "no hardware acceleration for 10bit h264 and no indications of upcoming 10bit h265" ?
Android Kodi boxes with "4K 10bit h264 & 10bit h265 hardware acceleration" are already preselling.
But if Kodi cannot actually accelerate either of them, then I wonder...
Well, with a fast enough CPU, anything can be done in software, but I don't know if there are any ARM boxes with sufficient horse power to get that done. Tested a shield, it comes up short doing software decoding, though it's hardware support IS it's main claim to fame anyway.
Once again, this is why my Kodi box's are powered by Intel quad cores.
Though I have to admit, the Shield ate 4K 60FPS HEVC for breakfast where even my i7 Extreme 4930K couldn't quite manage it in software.
2016-01-21, 12:50
(2016-01-21, 04:12)smitopher Wrote:Yes - though this is probably more because most 4:2:2 content is broadcast quality source (or contribution circuit quality) material before the compression to broadcast or optical distribution bitrates. So it looks nicer not just because it is in 4:2:2 but because it is a very high quality source!(2016-01-21, 02:38)noggin Wrote: My WDTV Live does 4:2:2 MPEG2 (which was a big surprise I found out by accident). I've seldom found any hardware outside the broadcast sphere that does 4:2:2 anything...Is 4:2:2 noticeably good?
440Mbs 4:2:2 (as used on HD-Cam SR) looks very nice indeed (it uses MPEG-4 Part 2 Simple Studio Profile at 10 bits), as does uncompressed 4:2:2 as used between studio cameras and vision mixers (aka switchers). (SR decks can also, optionally record 4:4:4 - which is a format mainly used for camera acquisition and interchange during production at the very high end, and some can also record 2 x 4:2:2 feeds simultaneously for 3D acquisition onto a single deck)
4:2:2 MPEG2 was widely used as the broadcast satellite standard for SD and HD - with HD bitrates in the 38-60+Mbs, though H264 has now significantly taken over and is more widely used in the 18-40Mbs range for satellite (and compressed fibre) distribution. At these bitrates you do see some compression artefacts (as you do with Blu-ray) - but it still looks very nice indeed.
I'm not sure you'd tell 4:2:0 from 4:2:2 in most cases 'on screen' - but it does have benefits (particularly with interlaced content) in the production chain. If you are using 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0 sources for chroma-key, you do get better results with 4:2:2 - though this may be as much because 4:2:2 is usually a higher bitrate source than 4:2:0. 4:2:0 is used to subsample and reduce bitrates prior to compression to further reduce the final bitrate required and reduce the compression ratio required in the compressed codec. Hence SD DV25 is 4:2:0 (or 4:1:1 in some cases) whereas SD DV50 (and IMX 50) is 4:2:2. Back in the day news SNG links were c.8Mbs SD in 4:2:0 MPEG2 compared to 24Mbs HD in 4:2:2 MPEG2
Quote:Have you ever seen 4:4:4? If so, Do you see any difference between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2?
Yes - and before that I saw uncompressed analogue RGB camera outputs with equal bandwidths. You can see a difference if you are close to the screen and look very critically. The real benefit of 4:4:4 is that you get much better results when you colour grade in the edit, and you can also get higher quality compositing using green-screen (as you have full bandwidth across the capture, without having Cb and Cr colour difference signals subsampled)
2016-01-22, 01:55
(2016-01-20, 18:29)Alan BStard Wrote:(2016-01-20, 09:40)fritsch Wrote:"No" as in "no hardware acceleration for 10bit h264" or "no indications of upcoming 10bit h265" ?(2016-01-20, 00:12)Alan BStard Wrote: Does it accelerate 10bit h264 if hardware has the capability? With regards to the Rockchip RK3229.No.
And is there any indication there will be 10bit h265 acceleration?
Android Kodi boxes with "4K 10bit h264 & 10bit h265 hardware acceleration" are already preselling.
But if Kodi cannot actually accelerate either of them, then I wonder...
Hello fritsch, I would really appreciate if you could clarify this?
No support for 10bit h264 acceleration or no indications of upcoming 10bit h265 acceleration?
2016-01-22, 01:58
(2016-01-22, 01:55)Alan BStard Wrote:(2016-01-20, 18:29)Alan BStard Wrote:(2016-01-20, 09:40)fritsch Wrote: No."No" as in "no hardware acceleration for 10bit h264" or "no indications of upcoming 10bit h265" ?
Android Kodi boxes with "4K 10bit h264 & 10bit h265 hardware acceleration" are already preselling.
But if Kodi cannot actually accelerate either of them, then I wonder...
Hello fritsch, I would really appreciate if you could clarify this?
No support for 10bit h264 acceleration or no indications of upcoming 10bit h265 acceleration?
10bit H265 is planned for a future release, v17 if possible. As soon as ffmpeg adds support, so will Kodi. It's the format of the future.
2016-01-22, 04:03
(2016-01-22, 03:40)MrMC Wrote: hahaha, sure, sure
Some people using a PVR Backend in Germany are likely to start to want it from the middle of this year : http://www.a516digital.com/2015/06/germa...dvb-t.html
DVB-T2+H265/HEVC is launching in Germany before the Euro 2016 football it seems. Very likely to be 10 bit. There's a potential split between 720/50p and 1080/50p (that's not a typo for 50i) Currently Germany is SD MPEG2 DVB-T on terrestrial, with the PSBs 720/50p on satellite (AVC/H264)
It appears ZDF will be 1080/50p but Das Erste will be 720/50p. However the commercial channels which are currently FTA in SD, will be Pay-TV when they switch to HD (as they are on satellite in HD)
2016-01-22, 10:55
(2016-01-22, 03:40)MrMC Wrote: hahaha, sure, sure
Yeah - long way to go. but when looking in detail, not that long:
For VAAPI:
Kodi - Implementation: Howto cope with the new 10 bit, respectively 16 bit EGL buffers <- If fernet wants to do it ~ 1.5 hours :-)
FFmpeg: Implement P1010 hw acceleration <- if Timo is after it (who already did the hevc 8 bit) I'd say a week cause of all the infrastructure
Hardware missing (!) Broxton and Kabilake
VDPAU:
FFmpeg: same as above from a time perspective
Kodi: Let's see how they do their interop - curious.
GTX 950 or 960+
Rest:
No idea - is there anything left on desktop linux?
2016-01-22, 11:23
I'm sure you guys have seen this article on 10 bit optimisation in ffmpeg : http://www.obe.tv/about-us/obe-blog/item...onversions
Probably not relevant directly, but interesting nonetheless. (10 bit video is not a nice 'byte-wide' format, unlike 8 bit)
ffmpeg, and the broadcast-optimised fork ffmbc, are in widespread use in the broadcast industry, where 10 bit has been a fact of life for a long time.
Probably not relevant directly, but interesting nonetheless. (10 bit video is not a nice 'byte-wide' format, unlike 8 bit)
ffmpeg, and the broadcast-optimised fork ffmbc, are in widespread use in the broadcast industry, where 10 bit has been a fact of life for a long time.
2016-01-22, 17:46
Remember, Hi10P, which uses 10-bit color depth, is not the same thing as 10-bit HEVC.
2016-01-22, 18:58
(2016-01-22, 01:58)Soulbind Wrote:Thanks.(2016-01-22, 01:55)Alan BStard Wrote:10bit H265 is planned for a future release, v17 if possible. As soon as ffmpeg adds support, so will Kodi. It's the format of the future.(2016-01-20, 18:29)Alan BStard Wrote: "No" as in "no hardware acceleration for 10bit h264" or "no indications of upcoming 10bit h265" ?Hello fritsch, I would really appreciate if you could clarify this?
Android Kodi boxes with "4K 10bit h264 & 10bit h265 hardware acceleration" are already preselling.
But if Kodi cannot actually accelerate either of them, then I wonder...
No support for 10bit h264 acceleration or no indications of upcoming 10bit h265 acceleration?
What is the situation 10bit h264? A lot of stuff I watch is only available in this format.
Unfortunately the preselling "4K 10bit h264 & 10bit h265 hardware acceleration" Kodi boxes look like false advertising then : (
EDIT: They actually respond to enquiries, but the only response was "We have installed the most compatible KODI version" : )
2016-01-24, 14:55
Does Kodi support hardware acceleration of Hi10p?
2016-01-24, 17:09
(2016-01-24, 14:55)Alan BStard Wrote: Does Kodi support hardware acceleration of Hi10p?No - because there is very little hardware that accelerates Hi10p. In fact none of the mainstream stuff does.
You get hardware acceleration of H264, VC-1 and MPEG2 8-bit, with HEVC 8-bit also appearing. Some HEVC 10-bit stuff is appearing too but just because hardware can do 10-bit HEVC it doesn't mean it can do 10-bit H264 (aka Hi10p though this term is going to get confusing now...)
There are vague reports of a Rockchip SoC just released that claims H264 Hi10p support - but I don't think it has been confirmed yet - and Kodi support of 10 bit is still an interesting discussion.
2016-01-25, 17:48
The Rockchip RK3229 is why I'm asking. I'd like to get an RK3229 box, but not if its capabilities are not and will not be actually usable.
