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bilgepump · 2016-09-15, 02:20

(2016-09-15, 00:05)scott967 Wrote: it is difficult to get a window layout that looks good with different point-size fonts. Often the "massive" ones are cut-off and need to scroll or can overlap, or at least the spacing of text elements doesn't look as nice. I find it is possible to make a compromise that looks "pretty much" OK, but I am a computer scientist not a graphic designer so my artistic sense may be flawed.

Yes, there is a balance between aesthetics and functionality, but I think functionality has to take priority. If something looks nice but you can't use it or can't easily use it, it won't be used. I've had to use larger font sizes in Windows and on my phone (by a user-created application that I had to install) and it does "wreck" the aesthetics when you go "huge" but if you can't read it, you have to sacrifice the looks for the functionality.

The only thing I'm having difficulty with is the size of the watched/not watched/partly watched icons, but my tv is small, and close. I can understand the issue those sitting further away or having a higher resolution TV are having. I had a similar issue on my old CRT tv and I used a Windows add-on that zoomed the screen up for me.

I don't think anyone expects the (IMO, lovely) aesthetics of the skin to be destroyed, just that consideration be given to making text bigger, or having some accessibility options included so that those who need to can increase size.

rodalpho · 2016-09-16, 00:05

It's not ugly at all, the default sizes are very attractive, but functionality took a hit. It looks fine on the 65" TV in my living room, but lying on my bed 10 feet from my 40" TV, I have to squint a bit. Many people have 32" TVs in their bedrooms, there's no way that's readable with less than 20/20 vision.

djneil · (This post was last modified: 2016-09-20, 21:50 by djneil.)

Hey,

I personally have got a handycap in sight. I have big problems seeing the smaller fonts like 10 to 12 on any screen on estuary skin.
Wouldnt it be great for all the sight handicapped people wanting to use kodi in future (with default skin) to not have to go through all the settings xmls and have to increase all the font values?!
Could you PLEASE consider a "mode" / second font set for the visually impaired users of this great media center?

I hope you get my point.

Greetings

Hendrik

phil65 · 2016-09-21, 21:57

Interesting that stuff gets compared to 7 year old software instead of to something new....

Here is a sane comparison:

I talked about this with other skinners at DevCon, the definite answer is "No, we wont add a extra-large font setting".

voochi · 2016-09-22, 02:04

You say you don't want to be compared to something from 7 years ago...

Well, if you want to be compared to something modern like Android TV then perhaps you should implement user font size preference. Android TV has this. That's why they can go with these quite small default fonts. Their typography guidelines specify font in sp so it can be scaled if user chooses large/medium/etc font.

https://developer.android.com/design/tv/...typography

And if you don't want to implement these modern features then you should choose a default font size that caters for as many users as possible.

edrikk · (This post was last modified: 2016-09-22, 02:59 by edrikk.)

I'm really not sure how that's a "sane comparison"...
You're showing a well designed UI where the user can select what they are looking for based on large, clear pictures, which are intuitive or have large labels within the image (ie TED).

You are comparing this to a mostly text driven interface of Estuary, where the User has to READ the text (be it title or description) in order to decide if they want to watch something.

It's basically a completely wrong comparison...

Out of curiosity (since I don't have Android devices), how does that UI present TV Show or movie synopsis? I'd bet that if it's a 9' interface, it won't be in font too small to read.

Your note about Devcon is sad. It shows a complete lack of understanding of how real people use software. Real people being: People watching from a distance, people who can't see well due to a physical issue, people who are not computer literate, etc. Basically anyone other than a guy sitting in front of a computer, or using an App to control their TV.

It's also interesting that the Devs keep saying that "we're not UX designers" so don't look at us, and the guys who design the UX are so entrenched in a false reality that they refuse to let the User who can't see make the font a little bigger so they can use the software.

This is the kind of attitude that has made Devs leave, and will make Users leave.... Why even ask for feedback then about this thing?

**QueK9** · 2016-09-22, 16:00

(2016-09-21, 21:57)phil65 Wrote: Interesting that stuff gets compared to 7 year old software instead of to something new....

Here is a sane comparison:

I talked about this with other skinners at DevCon, the definite answer is "No, we wont add a extra-large font setting".

This is truly disappointing....

rodalpho · (This post was last modified: 2016-09-22, 20:40 by rodalpho.)

Very simple reason why I didn't compare to androidTV. Aside from the highlighted card, readability in that androidTV shot is actually worse than Estuary. It has similarly-sized fonts, but the text is very low contrast, light grey on dark grey. There's no way you'd be able to tell that picture of mountains was actually the Youtube app sitting 10 feet away from a 40" TV until you highlighted it to read the text-- and even worse, you'd be fooled to think the Play Movies & TV App was actually Google Maps!

Modernity is completely irrelevant. What matters is usability. I chose to post screenshots of the TiVo UI because they're excellent examples of putting usability first. The SD shot is obviously ancient, and was intended to illustrate how they adjusted font sizes and page layout moving from SD to HD.

I'm sure you agree that the default skin should put usability first, ahead of all other concerns. You just don't think legibility is a problem. Please take a second look-- try using Kodi with Estuary 10 feet from a 40" TV. Then imagine you don't have perfect 20/20 vision.

**scott967** · 2016-09-22, 21:15

I think that's why there are alt skins and skin mods, no? Just find one that meets your needs.

scott s.
.

edrikk · 2016-09-23, 01:49

LOL.

My parents (for example) aren't going to/can't hunt down "a skin that they can read"... They need that out of the box.

They'd just as soon use Plex on their Samsung TV...

RMP888 · 2016-09-23, 02:28

(2016-09-22, 16:00)QueK9 Wrote:
(2016-09-21, 21:57)phil65 Wrote: Interesting that stuff gets compared to 7 year old software instead of to something new....

Here is a sane comparison:

I talked about this with other skinners at DevCon, the definite answer is "No, we wont add a extra-large font setting".

This is truly disappointing....

yes disappointing and probably discriminatory against the visually impaired.

bilgepump · 2016-09-23, 02:50

(2016-09-22, 21:15)scott967 Wrote: I think that's why there are alt skins and skin mods, no? Just find one that meets your needs.

No other skin will install on any of my computers. I've tried with different versions and they always report missing dependencies. Besides which, skin mods are when you want something "different", not basic functionality. Basic functionality should be in any default setting, IMO, and not something that needs to be "found" elsewhere.

trogggy · 2016-09-23, 02:55

(2016-09-23, 02:50)bilgepump Wrote:
(2016-09-22, 21:15)scott967 Wrote: I think that's why there are alt skins and skin mods, no? Just find one that meets your needs.
No other skin will install on any of my computers. I've tried with different versions and they always report missing dependencies.

Then you should sort that out. Every time I've installed krypton I've had confluence up and running withing 5 minutes, just for familiarity. If you can't install that at least something is wrong with your install.

phil65 · 2016-09-23, 03:33

This thread makes me aware again why I stayed out of the forum for quite some time.

edrikk · (This post was last modified: 2016-09-23, 05:02 by edrikk.)

(2016-09-23, 03:33)phil65 Wrote: This thread makes me aware again why I stayed out of the forum for quite some time.

Feedback from handicapped users or non-handicapped users?