[Soli]

Personally, I see no alternative facts. Put it all on the table and let users decide. I am trying everything from my own experience, drawing my own conclusions and comparisons. I don't consider trying every method crazy and I don't prefer any one thing at this time since I'm still exploring what's out there. Not sure why you have to attack? I'm preparing for when I can rip my own UHD HDR when and if possible. In the mean time, I have test files to work with and know I will have plenty of methods for playback when the time comes having tried them all succesfully:

Windows Movie and TV app using Windows HDR.
PowerDVD with and without Windows HDR.
MPC HC/BE with and without Windows HDR including many versatile implementations.
Looking forward to Kodi internal player and interested in seamless external integration until then. Should Kodi internal player be inferior, I'll have other choices prepared. No user interaction is of interest to me. I like complete automation. So far I think I've narrowed that down to two. 3DLUT injection and PowerDVD. The latter requires older Nvidia drivers though and until the standard gets a grip, traction is going to change so I don't rule anything out until the fat lady sings.

I suspect many are trying HDR test files and the first thing they see is a dull washed out picture and thinking wtf is this? As much as you consider this a technical forum, many non-techies come here looking for answers. Some want highly advanced answers with technical procedures to produce the best possible outcome backed my multitudes of 'this is the best way'. That may or may not involve money (one quick deciding factor) for sheeple. Another may involve the shear learning curve that must be adhered for an outcome that perhaps a non-techie doesn't want to learn. (another quick deciding factor sheeple don't tend to migrate towards). A method such as increasing saturation and contrast via a player and/or panel will produce quick satisfaction - something a lot of sheeple would grasp because they aren't looking for the greatest. They just want a watchable picture to crack a beer open to. Figuring out how to rip a title was enough achievement and won't be burdened with playback too. To them, it is the greatest. For those reasons, ALL methods are welcomed in my book. While one is your opinion of correct, it won't be correct for everyone. Other methods are not alternative facts like a headline. They are choices unique users make for themselves. Those decisions are based on how they choose to interpret what is presented to them and what fits them best. This isn't a right or wrong issue and taking a hardline stance in the name of everyone is counter productive. Let's compare notes here and stop getting sidetracked. Stop attacking people. This isn't a dictatorship. This isn't a place to belittle people and fuel bickering. Everyone and everything is of value to others even if it isn't to you. Go read your 1st 3 posts in this resurrected thread. You claim you're not particularly hostile? Your last post is hostile too. No hostility intended from part in any of this and my deepest respect and forgiveness continues...... so that we all might continue exchanging.

I don't think my first 3 posts were that bad. I knew from the get-go what was claimed couldn't be done and worst case scenario it could have been some elaborate hoax/virus/trojan. I think it was right of me to warn other users about this.
When he finally included the bat files, I took a look at them and the comments of my post was based on the exact content of those files. I knew it was bogus before I looked at them, but now I had definitive proof that it didn't walk the walk, so to speak. And speak I did.

Another user used these settings to watch bt.2020 HDR on his bt.709(ish) SDR display. I told him to dream on. Its true I don't aim for a future diplomatic career by any means, but then again I was only telling him to do keep on doing what he already was doing (although underlying reason was to wake him up). We are not walking on on eggshells here. We are in a discussion forum. We discuss, and we should be able discuss freely without needing to sugarcoat every reply. And without the inevitable user proclaiming "uh oh why is it so hostile now?", or "uh oh I'm done helping htpc users", "I'm done with this forum", "please delete my posts", "This project really bothers soli. Funny how he defends hdr . Almost like getting a 8===D", and last but not least some far fetched conspiracy theory along the lines of "Because some habitually capitalize at the expense of sheeple and anyone who presents alternative avenues, especially free ones, are the enemy and therefore chastised." I mean, really? Does any of this have any remote relevance with the subject?

Anyways, I don't intend to dwell on this or other semantics that you touch upon in your post. Bygones.

part1, going from bt.2020 HDR to bt.709.: It's wrong to say the dull and washed out picture is because of HDR. It's mainly because of the much bigger color gamut. The raw R'G'B' numbers in a bt.2020 gamut will correspond to much lesser saturated colors in bt.709. The primary colors are at an altogether coordinates in the CIE diagram than before, the primary vector lines are different, and the amount the coordinates have changed is wildly different. You can't fix this with adjusting saturation contrast, brightness and hue that are common for all primaries. You will end up clipping the signal digitally, and still the picture won't resemble anything what it's supposed to look. The sooner everyone realizes this, the better. Period.


part2, going from bt.2020 HDR to bt.2020 NON SDR: This is what mr G originally talked about in his first posts.
If you a) have a GPU that isn't able to inject HDR metadata, you were supposed to manually set your TV to bt.2020 color gamut. Already this disqualifies a lot of people since a lot of people since only some brands lets you set this manually. Anyways let's play along with this:

So why is there some "need" to adjust contrast, brightness, saturation when you can set bt.2020 color gamut manually ? Because the transfer function of HDR and SDR is wildly different. Even if the TV is set manually to bt.2020 color gamut it expects the signal to be SDR unless the metadata suggests otherwise. (on Panasonic you can override both transfer function and color gamut, but most displays won't let you) For instance, HDR would look too dark in this mode. That's why he probably upped brightness a bit, while the contrast/saturation is probably some further half-assed (sorry, but that wording is a non hostile but accurate description /sugarcoat) way of trying to both trying correct the transfer function and tone map. (which is, surprise, impossible to do this way) Lastly I don't think you can get the really bright peak highlights while the a HDR display is in SDR mode, even if you turn up all the relevant controls, and it doesn't do any proper tonemapping (in truth it not supposed to when it's in SDR mode). In sum, it's f..... up is what it is (meant in a very non hostile, although very accurate, way)

I can go on, but I don't need to. I already feel stupid for even writing this post. Apparantly I need to get technical and "prove" that using MPC-HC controls to get HDR (or "XDR")" is bogus. It's like pointing out the pink elephant in the room.

Just to be clear. This post is very very non hostile, no hostility intended, and respect to everyone