[notgood]

I have found KODI (17) to be extremely frustrating - not only to set up, but to use.

I know I'm among users who probably love it, and I'm not trying to make waves or be rude, just give honest feedback. I'm too old to just come in and whine about nothing. I signed up here just for this one post, so just trying to help.

I have seen a few other threads where new users are given a hard time for raising complaints. They are often told to read the Wiki.

A good UI designer knows that you should design your software so an idiot can use it. My gramma should be able to play a song. I'm no idiot, and I CAN use it, but I don't like it.

* Adding sources, then populating the main menu entries with those files is ridiculously confusing - at minimum, it is far from intuitive. Adding the sources isn't such a big deal, it's what to after that. When I highlight, say "Movies" in the main menu, I am given a screen that says my library is empty and to go to "Files" etc. But if I "click" the movies button, I am given a list of all my movies. Okay....so they are there, kind of?

I can click the Files button a hundred times and try this and that with no change. My movies are there, so what the...?

I know there are answers to all of these questions - all I'm saying is that for a first time user, it's a mystery.

* I'm using this in an arcade cabinet. Once a song is playing it is hard to figure out how to bring up the pause, play, stop controls. Oh, it's over to the left, okay. Who knew? Or sometimes not. Depends on the menu you're in, it seems. For movies though it's easy. Or different anyways.

Sometimes the song starts over when I move to the left though. I want OTHER people to be able to use this. It is not intuitive at all. If you think it is, you've been around it too long. I may remember the controls over time, but nobody else will.

* Another example: There's a screen with a list of files on the right, and duplicate files on the left. There are little arrows in the middle to move the files. They don't do anything. What is this screen? I have no idea. I can't move any files - why do I want to?

I have used many media players, am a software developer, and I have never had this much trouble.

Perhaps it's my fault as I was told this was a good solution for my needs (arcade cabinet), perhaps they were wrong.

* It's supposed to have joystick support - main reason I got it. Adding joystick control is supposed to be in the newest daily release. None of my four joysticks show up. I had to use "JoyToKey" to get it to work. Editing XML files? No thanks, seriously?

I realize this is BETA so I'll let that one slide

I don't want to drag this out too long. After 2 days of fussing I will go with another solution. I just wanted to give some constructive feedback before I go. Please take this as such.

Users do not want to have to go to a wiki to figure out your program. Most people don't even read instructions at all. Wikis and readme.txt files - fuhgettaboutit.

There are a lot of little things I don't have time to mention.

I would rate my user experience fairly low.Try this: let someone try and figure this out who has never used this and watch them over their shoulder - no hints! See how they do. I always learn a lot that way as a designer.

Anyways, hope this helps. Cheers.

[Ned Scott]

Kodi really isn't a turn-key solution. Being highly customizable, to the point of needing a manual, is one of the things that sets Kodi apart from other options. IMO, it's a tool to make a theater setup, more than it is a final product.

Still, the devs always strive to make things logical and easy whenever possible. Most of the issues you've listed are known and agreed upon, but Kodi is also a volunteer project. It's much easier to identify the problems than it is to fix them. Hopefully one day it will be much easier to do all of these setup steps.

All that having been said, feedback is feedback, and thank you for being honest and constructive.

[TRaSH]

2 weeks ago I got a call of a old friend of mine.
He's totally not technical and is having a hard time to understand the extra stuff he can do with his iPhone
He's 63 he didn't have any real issues with it.
He followed the wiki as a extra to see if he did everything correct.
The new Kodi v17 is much easier to add sources because it's right at the start of the settings.
Kinda logic when you add your source you tell it once what the source contains.
He used to have a acryan and a dune.
After 1 day use he wondered why he never started to use it earlier then those primitive players with only file list mode or with external programs to add the info or covers.
After adding the sources the main menu was filled with his movies and music.

His opinion was that Kodi was pretty easy to setup and the wiki decent because of the screenshots.
Pictures often explain more then text.

[nickr]

Yes its odd when there is pretty (for the most part) documentation but people refuse to read it.

I think there will be a lot of problems with 17 because Estuary is so different to Confluence, and all the howtos/screenshots will need updating. However I think Ned is on to that.

[Powerhouse]

I think I will make a post entitled "Why I HATE people who's first post is a Rant, that they could easily fix by reading the Wiki.".

Your use case is very specific. You are using Kodi (a Media Center), in an Arcade cabinet, and are having issues with Joystick control. Shocker.

What you failed to understand...

1. Kodi 17 is in Beta, so be prepared for bugs.

2. Arcade joystick support has been added, but is still very buggy (again, see point 1).

3. The Music section has had major work done to it, and is still a work in progress (once again, see point 1).

4. None of your four joysticks work (yet you didn't list what model they are, to see if they are supported). Try an Xbox 360 controller, or a Tankstick, those both work for me without any issues.

5. You didn't once say what Skin you are using that is giving you these issues.Was it Confluence, Estuary, or Estouchy...?

6. Again, your feedback is very lacking. How about a couple of screenshots with the issues you reported? as your example "Another example: There's a screen with a list of files on the right, and duplicate files on the left." tells me nothing, where a simple screenshot, would be so much more useful. Or a least tell us how you got to said screen (Settings, Add-On's, and xxx, etc.).

Oh, and both my Parents (in their 70's), use Kodi 16.1, on the Aeon MQ7 skin, and find it easy to use, and love the look of everything. Of course they are using a logitech remote to control their Nvidia Shield. The only instructions I had to give them, was point to the location of the media server, and add Movies, TV Shows, Music, and Music Videos.

[trogggy]

I think there will be a lot of problems with 17 because Estuary is so different to Confluence, and all the howtos/screenshots will need updating. However I think Ned is on to that.

Took me 2 minutes and a few swear words figuring out how to switch to confluence and then it was plain sailing.

I read the OP and I have mixed feelings.
On the one hand I'm thinking it's not that hard, if you don't want to read the instructions it's nobody else's problem, and you're using beta software so yah boo sucks to you.
Edit: having read the post below I agree, it's not a rant.

On the other I sometimes think kodi actually is a turn-key solution for a large proportion of users, and it's kind of a shame it's not a bit more difficult. If it wasn't so easy to install / add a wizard / stick loads of addons on / install a build / buy a pre-loaded box of crap it wouldn't be the go-to piracy application and it wouldn't have the 'image' problem it does. Geeks People could quietly go about using whatever stuff they wanted without it being a big issue here (because anyone using it would either have some kind of a clue or be helped by one who has (eg my mum) so wouldn't be asking the stupid 'How do I get Sky Sports?' questions in the forum).
Either that's how it used to be in 'the good old days' or I've got my rose-tinted glasses on.
</ramble>

[ronie]

first post is not a rant. it's valuable feedback from a first time user,
who took the time, a lot of time, to write down his experiences for us.

i'm sure there are issues in kodi we, as long time users, have grown accustomed to, take for granted and/or don't notice anymore.

constructive feedback is appreciated in this forum, and it doesn't always have to be positive feedback.
we can learn more from people who don't understand certain aspects than from users who come in cheering about how perfect kodi is.

as a skin dev i'm more interested to hear about aspects of a skin that don't work or are unclear than about things that work fine.
and yes, by all means, leave the ass kissing behind. there's no need to tell me i'm god's gift to mankind first (i already know that),
before you can report a bug or make a feature request.

[PatK]

It's nice to have one of these thoughtful 'hate' rants every now an again, just to remind us of our failures and point in directions overlooked. I was tempted to write a point by point rebuttal until I saaw Ned's message which is close to spot on, but I'd like to add a few missives.

If all you want is a media player, there's plenty to choose from, but if you're looking for organization in a comprehensive library, who are you going to call? There's two type of users, the first seeing the potential; and self educates with all the material he can get a hold of (wiki's top left ) eventually comes to terms with the organization, history and the roadmap to the future with this community. The other goes his way, perhaps with fork in hand.

Idiots don't run Kodi, they click on files with their o/s default.

As a software developer, and designer, you can understand a conceptual idea from start to end, but can you envision the product evolving over time from what it was to what it is now over multi platforms, without skipping a beat while adding functionality, all the while pleasing the majority on that journey?

Could Kodi be better? Sure, but it takes a consorted effort of many talented individuals to donate their expertise to help us get to the next level.

There are a lot of little things I don't have time to mention.

That goes two directions!

[enen92]

first post is not a rant. it's valuable feedback from a first time user,
who took the time, a lot of time, to write down his experiences for us.

i'm sure there are issues in kodi we, as long time users, have grown accustomed to, take for granted and/or don't notice anymore.

constructive feedback is appreciated in this forum, and it doesn't always have to be positive feedback.
we can learn more from people who don't understand certain aspects than from users who come in cheering about how perfect kodi is.

as a skin dev i'm more interested to hear about aspects of a skin that don't work or are unclear than about things that work fine.
and yes, by all means, leave the ass kissing behind. there's no need to tell me i'm god's gift to mankind first (i already know that),
before you can report a bug or make a feature request.

I think the widgets on the home screen are not working 100%. After installing addons the addon appear right up on the screen. However yesterday scrapped a local movie to the library and like the OP despite the movie being scrapped and added to the library correctly the movies widget was not populated. This was on a krypton nighly build higher than the beta version on OSX. I'll try again later with the most recent nightly to confirm the issue.

[DJ_Izumi]

* I'm using this in an arcade cabinet. Once a song is playing it is hard to figure out how to bring up the pause, play, stop controls. Oh, it's over to the left, okay. Who knew? Or sometimes not. Depends on the menu you're in, it seems. For movies though it's easy. Or different anyways.

...Who would use Kodi as a MAME cab front end? o.O

[bilgepump]

* Adding sources, then populating the main menu entries with those files is ridiculously confusing - at minimum, it is far from intuitive. Adding the sources isn't such a big deal, it's what to after that. When I highlight, say "Movies" in the main menu, I am given a screen that says my library is empty and to go to "Files" etc. But if I "click" the movies button, I am given a list of all my movies. Okay....so they are there, kind of?

I can click the Files button a hundred times and try this and that with no change. My movies are there, so what the...?

I know there are answers to all of these questions - all I'm saying is that for a first time user, it's a mystery.

When you've moved along and learnt more, it's a bit difficult to put yourself back to when you first installed a program, but having thought about it I agree with the OP in relation to this. It took me some time to figure out exactly (or my understanding of it, with might not equate to "exactly") what was going on with the program itself and the library database. If you've never dealt with databases at all, it probably wouldn't occur to someone what's going on.

The wiki does not cover the basics in a simple and explanatory way and I'd say that the general "tone" of the wiki and the forum is that there are things that everyone "should know" and that you are 'dumb' if you don't. Ignorance is not "dumb", it's just something you haven't yet learnt. Other difficulties I had with the information is determining when it was written and what it related to. Sometimes, there had been changes to the program which made the information out of date for my issue. More dating of the information might help with that. Especially at the moment, if you are trying to use Krypton, a lot is different to what you will find that comes from the "xbmc days".

Like many software programs or other "do-dads", when it does what you need without trouble, it's "easy". It's when you need to "figure stuff out" that it seems hard or frustrating.

If you are pitching to "non-PC" people, more explanatory and basic info "somewhere" could be helpful. The problem with voluntary submissions is that time and inclination may be devoted elsewhere. That's the nature of the beast.

EDIT: I've only recently been using kodi to play music and I agree that it is difficult to find the controls. I couldn't stop a song....As Krypton is beta, I'm not too concerned about things I can't easily figure out, but I'd thought a right mouse click would bring up controls but it doesn't.

[Ned Scott]

* I'm using this in an arcade cabinet. Once a song is playing it is hard to figure out how to bring up the pause, play, stop controls. Oh, it's over to the left, okay. Who knew? Or sometimes not. Depends on the menu you're in, it seems. For movies though it's easy. Or different anyways.

...Who would use Kodi as a MAME cab front end? o.O

It actually works out really well in a lot of projects, either as the main launcher interface, or simply handling media duties for music and such. However, there's a lot more options to choose from these days, like Emulation Station and Hyperspin, so maybe it's not as common now.

The Rom Collection Browser add-on, when finally set up right, made for a really sweet system.

[nickr]

Thinking back, I moved to xbmc from mythtv and it took a while to figure it all out. I am a documentation reader so I got through it. But yeah setting up the library is not always intuitive. I habitually name and store videos as suits kodi now, but if you have a big library pre kodi, you'll have a lot of work to do.

Plus navigation around some crucial dialogues is difficult. EG in some skins you need to press right to get to a 'get more' button that is at the bottom, not at the right.

[sundoggie]

I tried Kodi years ago when it was XBMC.  I liked it but didn't keep it.  It was too difficult to use.  I am an IT guy who does some minor scripting so I have an understanding of how things work.  I just installed Kodi a couple weeks ago and can find my way around it now, but I have to agree with the original poster.  For the novice, who is not technical, this program is not for him.  Having just installed Kodi, it seems like more of a hobby than an entertainment center.  I spent more time figuring out how it works (or doesn't work) than actually watching tv on it.

There are some things I really love about Kodi, and I realize folks have worked their butts off for free, but I don't think this is a program that is useful for people who don't have a technical background.  I work with users, some are old, who still don't know file structure on a computer.  They don't know where the download went.  For the guy who says his 70 old parents had no problems using this; I call BS.

I hope you keep up the good work, and I hope I can contribute to the product at some point.  My son is a programmer, so I may be able to enlist his help once in a while; but realize this; Kodi is not for the piker.  If you really want to watch television instead of reading hours of material, this is not for you.  If you love getting down and dirty with technical information, this is an ideal project or hobby.  I have enough knowledge to use the functions I need, and I thank you for it.  Just a new users 2 cents.

[bilgepump]

but I don't think this is a program that is useful for people who don't have a technical background.  I work with users, some are old, who still don't know file structure on a computer.  They don't know where the download went.  For the guy who says his 70 old parents had no problems using this; I call BS.

Just one comment about this part of what you've said. I don't think you can generalise about people in that way. You don't need a "technical background" to figure things out and to learn. Somebody with such limited computer experience that they don't understand file structure will obviously struggle with basic computer tasks as well as understanding more complex ones, but "normal" users can learn it, whatever their age. I'm not from a 'technical background" and I'm "old(er)" and I've taught myself a lot on the computer. Old, with time, and interested enough to persist will get you there. Young, impatient and wanting to return to putting funny faces on your pictures and texting your friends won't. Effort, not personal characteristics or background, are what matter. If you have no issues with setup, it really is possible to point to some sources, populate your library and start using your remote.
70 doesn't mean stupid. I get a bit tired of reading about "elderly parents". (Mick Jagger is in his 70s and his energy level far exceeds some 30-y-o couch potato playing video games.....)