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CiNcH · (This post was last modified: 2017-01-19, 12:17 by CiNcH.)

I tested with the refresh rate samples over here. Everything is played at 60Hz without prior frame rate conversion. Refresh rate/display mode APIs are not supported. I really lost my sensitivity for micro judder when playing 50fps @ 60Hz for example. But as I know now, it can be trained. Don't know whether this was a good idea though. If you like what you see, you should be happy Big Grin

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Technologies like Sony’s ClearMotion are completely useless in this case as they don’t operate on the source video but the Android/OpenGL rendered output which is already wrong for 24/25fps @ 60Hz. A hardware FRC built into the SoC converting video to the display's refresh rate before rendering would probably be a good solution.

I just played around a bit with my Android TV Lollipop (5.1.1) based Sony TV with respect to refresh rate handling and smooth media playback...

Even with 'Adjust display refresh rate' being disabled ('Off'), 24p and 25i/50p look pretty smooth to my eyes. I assume that the hardware performs some frame rate conversion?

After enabling 'Adjust display refresh rate', no change in refresh rate seems to take place when I play different media. I also can't find any evidence inside the log that a change happens. 'System Information' always says that it is at 60Hz. At least PAL content should not play smoothly at 60Hz!?

I should be happy that everything plays smoothly. It would be interesting to know how this is achieved though. Or did I completely lose my sensitivity?

Koying · 2016-12-29, 17:39

The Sony Android TV (and Philips, I suppose) do not support refresh rate switching, it's locked at 1080p60 as far the Android subsystem is concerned.

CiNcH · (This post was last modified: 2017-01-19, 12:08 by CiNcH.)

Quote:it's locked at 1080p60 as far the Android subsystem is concerned.

DVB 25i broadcasts are smooth to my eyes. Checked on N24 (576i MPEG-2) and N24 HD (1080i H.264 MBAFF) with news ticker. Also 24p looks smooth. And there is no PAL Speedup involved (checked with PT without any transcoding). How can PAL and 24p be smooth without any change in refresh rate? Only with some FRC in place, no? Does AMC on Sony always output 60fps maybe? Huh

Koying · 2016-12-31, 00:23

Let's put it another way: As far as Kodi is concerned, the TV always run at 60p.

Might be some magic behind the scenes, but it's out of our control.

CiNcH · 2017-01-10, 17:56

Check this out.

Quote:ClearMotion Video Playback

MediaTek’s ClearMotion is a display technology that uses frame-rate conversion to enhance the visual quality of video playback and streaming. ClearMotion performs an automatic frame-rate conversion of standard 24/30 frames-per-second (fps) to 60 or even 120 fps, depending on display capability.

Neat, isn't it? No more refresh rate changing and no more laggy UI @ 24Hz....

**fritsch** · 2017-01-10, 18:10

Funny sidenote: You don't get 24 fps at all. Kodi is doing that ... it renders the 60 frames per second. Your TV has no single idea of what is on screen. It cannot distinguish between a movie running or estuary home screen. But cool, that you like what VideoPlayer is doing.

CiNcH · (This post was last modified: 2017-01-19, 12:08 by CiNcH.)

So you are doing a 3:2 pulldown?

And how would you explain that 50fps PAL is smooth too?

**fritsch** · 2017-01-10, 18:35

No.... I explained that to you already in great detail in a different thread.

CiNcH · 2017-01-10, 18:42

Yes here. But I still don't get how 24fps or 50fps @ 60Hz can be smooth.

**fritsch** · 2017-01-10, 19:02

Sorry. Cannot explain it better... use pen and paper. Write a list with max future times to be presented and go through it with 60 ticks. Choose the frame that matches current time stamp when passing by. Remove frames with a timestamp in the past.

CiNcH · 2017-01-10, 19:05

I know this kind of algorithm. And I have seen it a million time in action. It can't be as smooth as I experience it on the Sony TV. Native video app is as smooth BTW. Also Jarvis/SPMC.

**fritsch** · 2017-01-10, 19:09

Then congratulation.

CiNcH · 2017-01-11, 19:10

OK, you are right. I somehow completely lost my sensitivity for judder. I played some 50fps content on a 60Hz notebook display with madVR and toggeled FRC on/off. The difference is visible but the judder with FRC off is not as bad as I once experienced it... weird...

oo.viper.oo · 2017-01-19, 11:46

Sony is doing something smart behind the scenes regarding this. Whatever source I try, whatever cadence, whatever telecine/pull down conversions, I never experience judder or unpleasant motion rendering. I am actually very impressed with how Sony handles motion.

(For the record: the only judder I had ever seen on this Sony was with very ugly conversion from 24 to 25 fps done by repeating every 24th frame. This Sony couldn't fix. But I don't blame it...)

CiNcH · (This post was last modified: 2017-01-19, 12:03 by CiNcH.)

I actually don't think so anymore. I tested with the refresh rate samples over here. Everything is played at 60Hz without prior frame rate conversion. Refresh rate/display mode APIs are not supported. I really lost my sensitivity for micro judder when playing 50fps @ 60Hz for example. But as I know now, it can be trained. Don't know whether this was a good idea though. If you like what you see, you should be happy Big Grin

.

Technologies like Sony’s ClearMotion are completely useless in this case as they don’t operate on the source video but the Android/OpenGL rendered output which is already wrong for 24/25fps @ 60Hz. A hardware FRC built into the SoC converting video to the display's refresh rate before rendering would probably be a good solution.

Sony's motion handling is only relevant for the HDMI inputs.