[chrisssj2]

What is this thing people are hyped about frame by frame and one other thing perhaps? not sure that would be active for all content? (can't quite remember0

So if I understand correctly you can via Itunes create Network shares that you can access 100% with the Apple TV?
How about subs does putting an srt next to it, activate it like on your tv?

[noggin]

What is this thing people are hyped about frame by frame and one other thing perhaps? not sure that would be active for all content? (can't quite remember0

The Apple TV4K is the first Apple TV that will, within official apps, dynamically change its output refresh rate based on the media it is playing, rather than running at a fixed refresh rate. This is really important for us in 50Hz regions who watch 25p/50p content (catch-up TV, Netflix and Amazon Prime European shows etc.) which is best watched at 50Hz output, and 24p (*)content (like movies, Netflix/Amazon Prime US series etc.). which is best output at 24Hz.

If you watch live / recorded TV you also want 50Hz (or 60Hz in the US) (*)

Previous Apple TVs needed to be manually switched between 50 and 60Hz output in their output settings menus, and couldn't output 24p at 24Hz at all... The new ATV 4K has an option to output at native frame rate in the tvOS settings menu.

If you don't watch content at the right frame rate you introduce motion judder - such as the dreaded 3:2 judder on 24p displayed at 60Hz, and we also get nasty motion judder if 50Hz European stuff is output at 60Hz.  

Similarly the Apple TV 4K at one point would run permanently in HDR mode, meaning any SDR content was converted to HDR EOTF and output in HDR mode. This isn't ideal. The new options allow the ATV 4K to output SDR content in SDR mode, and HDR content in HDR mode, switching automatically.

(*) 24 = 24/23.976 60=60/59.94

[chrisssj2]

Thanks thats very descriptive. 
How about the network features?

Also I like to make sure it supports passthrough and playback of these audioformats?:

Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital +
Dolby TrueHD 
DTS
DTS-HD MA
DTS: X

[hdmkv]

No passthrough for TrueHD/ATMOS and DTS-MA/X.

[noggin]

Thanks thats very descriptive. 
How about the network features?

What in particular?

Also I like to make sure it supports passthrough and playback of these audioformats?:

Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital +
Dolby TrueHD 
DTS
DTS-HD MA
DTS: X

At the moment the ATV4K outputs either DD or PCM Multichannel (which Dolby True HD and DTS-HD MA can all be decoded losslessly to, as can DD, DD+, DTS and DTS HD HRA - though they are not lossless formats. I also don't know if the PCM support is just 48k or also include 96k and 192k).

There are strong suggestions that Apple will update tvOS to support Dolby Atmos to support streaming services that support it. (This is likely to be DD+ Atmos). This doesn't mean Dolby True-HD + Atmos will be supported.

Apple are probably only interested in supporting audio formats that are used by third party content providers. I don't see them supporting DVD, Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray rips - which are probably still the only sources of Dolby True HD, DTS-HD MA and HRA - and the Atmos and DTS:X variants of those similarly?  If commercial suppliers of content want to provide content in these formats - then the situation could change I guess..

However the Apple TV4K DOES support both Netflix and Amazon Prime in UHD and HDR, and with automatic frame rate switching.  There are very few other solutions that do this.

[wrxtasy]

What is this thing people are hyped about frame by frame and one other thing perhaps? not sure that would be active for all content? (can't quite remember0

So if I understand correctly you can via Itunes create Network shares that you can access 100% with the Apple TV?
How about subs does putting an srt next to it, activate it like on your tv?

You do Not need iTunes or an iPhone or Mac computer to use an AppleTV 4K. This is a common misconception.
All you need is to register for an Apple ID so you can then access the tvOS Apps store from the ATV 4K to install, well Apps.

This is no different than Android media players needing a Google Account to access and install Apps from the Android Playstore.

All you need for local home media playback on the Apple TV 4K is some sort of networked file server. That can be a NAS, another PC / Mac or even a home router with a hard drive attached to serve up files using SMB (Samba), NFS, FTP etc. No iTunes is even needed.

You then use Apps like VLC, Infuse or a highly modded Kodi Jarvis fork (alt. version) called MrMC to playback networked files. And yes they handle subtitles:

https://firecore.com/infuse

Lossless Audio support:
https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/ar...tions-tvOS-

https://mrmc.tv

As Noggin said the ATV 4K is very good for those of use that need International support for frame rates of 25 fps / 50Hz, not just the USA sourced video content only frame rates. I need a media player that properly auto sync's my TV to ALL Frame rates for smooth video playback.

I frankly cannot stand video judder, never grew up watching TV with video playback judder and I do not want to start now.

The Apple TV 4K is unique because it's TV refresh switching (frame rate matching) operates at an Operating system level, no matter what Apps you use.
It also properly at an Operating System level, no matter what App, auto switches and outputs the correct colors for mixed SDR, HDR10, DolbyVision video viewing. Google's Android Nougat OS does not even have support for such a feature.

Summing up what we are saying is the ATV 4K is a "set and forget" media player. You configure settings once and once only and then sit back and relax.
There is no need to continually fiddle with device setting all the time for smooth video playback and to get correct SDR / HDR color output like you do with Android media players. That stuffing about all the time quickly becomes a PITA.

Oh and it's the only external media player to support DolbyVision video streaming.

[ozkhan1]

This probably the most descriptive of all the threads in terms of atv 4k’s general capabilities not specific to Kodi playback. Thank you @noggin, @wrxtasy.

What I am struggling with is though, don’t the other major streamers such as Firetv 4K and Roku ultra (or whatever the premier model is) as well as xboxone and song ps4pro have all these capabilities I.e, auto refresh rate switching and quality up scaling of Sdr content when using apps such as Netflix, amazon, etc?

I understand what Apple has over them for sure is the Dolby vision, which the others don’t offer but do the other major contenders also struggle with the refresh rate and upscaling Problems?

I have really given up on any of the streamers to do Kodi duty to be honest and will be going with LE or OSMC, but I need to know which streamer gives me the best streaming app experience..

[wesk05]

Summing up what we are saying is the ATV 4K is a "set and forget" media player. You configure settings once and once only and then sit back and relax.
There is no need to continually fiddle with device setting all the time for smooth video playback and to get correct SDR / HDR color output like you do with Android media players. That stuffing about all the time quickly becomes a PITA.

I don't think so. In addition to the "fake" HDR10 metadata issue that I reported some time back, other problems are now showing up. All 4K 10-bit SDR content is output with pseudo HDR10 metadata (250/0.05nits max/min luminance, 250/100 MaxFALL/MaxCLL). The color space is changed from BT.709 to BT.2020. Since HDR mode is triggered on the display, this will throw off any display calibration that you may have done for SDR mode. Also, 1080p 10-bit HEVC SDR content is output in 8-bit color depth. What I can't say positively is whether this is a tVOS or MrMC issue.

[wrxtasy]

Hmm, so we are not quite there yet. I wonder if that only affects MrMC or Apps like Infuse and iTunes dynamic range switching as well ?
I've just noticed tvOS 11.2.5 has been released that could possibly inc. bug fixes.

EDIT
I have noticed commit's such as these in MrMC:
darwin: fixed bt709 incorrectly triggering HDR mode on tvOS
fixup darwin: fixed bt709 incorrectly triggering HDR mode on tvOS

[noggin]

The Apple TV 4K is unique because it's TV refresh switching (frame rate matching) operates at an Operating system level, no matter what Apps you use.

That is not quite correct - apps have to use Apple's media playback framework and flag in metadata the frame rate (and dynamic range) of the content to be played I believe. It is possible for apps to implement their own playback framework, and Apple have flagged that in this case automatic frame rate switching won't work.

[noggin]

Summing up what we are saying is the ATV 4K is a "set and forget" media player. You configure settings once and once only and then sit back and relax.
There is no need to continually fiddle with device setting all the time for smooth video playback and to get correct SDR / HDR color output like you do with Android media players. That stuffing about all the time quickly becomes a PITA.

I don't think so. In addition to the "fake" HDR10 metadata issue that I reported some time back, other problems are now showing up. All 4K 10-bit SDR content is output with pseudo HDR10 metadata (250/0.05nits max/min luminance, 250/100 MaxFALL/MaxCLL). The color space is changed from BT.709 to BT.2020. 

Is this at the OS level? Via Netflix The Crown S01 is 2160p SDR and is playing in SDR mode on my TV with an ATV 4K. Are Netflix using 8 bit HEVC for 2160p SDR stuff, and only using 10 bit HEVC for HDR?

it looks as if the ATV4K is flagging Rec 709 colour space for this SDR 2160p content as well - or my TV is defaulting to it - as when I cycle from Auto to Rec 2020 I see a noted colour change, but when I cycle from Auto to Rec 709 I don't.

Since HDR mode is triggered on the display, this will throw off any display calibration that you may have done for SDR mode.

Is this only for 10 bit SDR stuff, or if you have HDR/SDR dynamic switching disabled at the OS level (or is this a MrMC thing)? My ATV 4K switches dynamically between HDR and SDR nicely on Netflix and Amazon Prime.

Also, 1080p 10-bit HEVC SDR content is output in 8-bit color depth. What I can't say positively is whether this is a tVOS or MrMC issue. 

[chrisssj2]

Thanks for the extensive explanations! The device makes me excited! However I was realy dissappointed to hear it doesn't support Dolby atmos and DTS HD MA... Well even if it adds Dolby Atmos.. I still have alot of content in DTS HD MA.. 

So then my question is there actually a device that supports all these audio formats well for passthrough and playback? (and if one is missing please tell)

AC3
Dolby Digital
Dolby Digital +
Dolby TrueHD 
DTS
DTS-HD MA
DTS: X

[wrxtasy]

Noggin already explained it but once again > Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA will be decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM and output to an AVR on the ATV 4K
This results is NO loss in Audio quality.

https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/ar...tions-tvOS-

Dolby Atmos will have it it's spatially-coded substream (metadata) removed, but you will still get it's Dolby TrueHD core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

I believe DTS:X will be the same, you will get it's DTS-HD MA core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

[noggin]

Thanks for the extensive explanations! The device makes me excited! However I was realy dissappointed to hear it doesn't support Dolby atmos and DTS HD MA...

It supports DTS HD MA / HRA and Dolby True HD. However, like early Blu-ray players (and the first gen PS3) it doesn't output these as bitstreams (most BD players still have this as an option). Instead it losslessly decodes them - just as your AVR has to when fed a bitstream - to PCM Multichannel. There should be no quality loss in this process unless you are doing something with bitstream metadata. (*)

Well even if it adds Dolby Atmos.. I still have alot of content in DTS HD MA.. 

Which the ATV4K will playback fine in MrMC etc. - the only difference is that your amp will say something like 'Multi In' instead of 'DTS HD MA'...

So then my question is there actually a device that supports all these audio formats well for passthrough and playback? (and if one is missing please tell)

Do you mean passthrough OR playback - they aren't the same thing...

The ATV 4K will playback :

DD
DD+
DTS
Dolby True HD
DTS HD MA
DTS HD HRA

as multichannel PCM decoded losslessly.

It will only currently passthrough DD.

It cannot currently handle DTS:x (I believe it is handled as DTS HD MA), Dolby True HD with Atmos extensions (the Atmos extensions are discarded and the content output as PCM decoded from the Dolby True HD portion) or DD+ with Atmos Extensions (it is treated as regular DD+).  My understanding is that Apple will add DD+ with Atmos extensions (as a bitstream option) for streaming services to use, but I doubt they will support Dolby True HD + Atmos or DTS:x as there is no official source of this content outside of optical disc releases...

(*) The ATV 4K PCM multichannel output is limited to 48kHz 24 bit. This will mean lossless playback of the vast majority of movie and TV titles. There are some music titles (and a handful of movies) with 96 or 192kHz tracks - and these will be downsampled to 48kKHz, which will introduce a quality compromise. However there are VERY few movies with these tracks. (Akira is the only 192kHz 5.1 release I know of, though there are some stereo high rate much releases)

[wrxtasy]

@noggin what is your understanding of Neural X audio on AVR's ?

Can you just feed an AVR multichannel LPCM and then get the AVR's Neural X functionality to upmix Audio to additional speakers ?