[noggin]

@noggin what is your understanding of Neural X audio on AVR's ?

Can you just feed an AVR multichannel LPCM and then get the AVR's Neural X functionality to upmix Audio to additional speakers ?

When I feed a 5.1 bitstream or 5.1 Multichannel PCM feed into my Denon AVR I get the option to run with Neural:X or without (along with a whole bunch of other modes - including a Dolby Surround option which will use Dolby matrix processing I believe?).  My understanding is that Neural:X would be used to generate additional speaker feeds.  Sadly I only have a 5.0 set-up at home, so can't confirm this is the case in reality.  (The new amp doesn't have Dolby ProLogic or ProLogic II decoding for matrix surround sources, and offers other modes instead by the way)

AIUI Neural:X is kind of a Dolby ProLogic replacement (i.e. it will decode matrixed surround elements, or will attempt to create them based on the source content. We've probably all heard wide stereo with no surround encoding, decoded via matrix surround and 'sound' surroundy as out of phase elements on the edge of the sound field are folded in to the back speakers!)

Our Denon AVR has a very useful iOS app that tells you both the input Audio and Video formats (including how many channels are present, HDR or SDR, resolution and frame rate - but not bit depth, colour space or RGB/YCbCr format) and the output audio config and video formats.

[chrisssj2]

Noggin already explained it but once again > Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA will be decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM and output to an AVR on the ATV 4K
This results is NO loss in Audio quality.

https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/ar...tions-tvOS-

Dolby Atmos will have it it's spatially-coded substream (metadata) removed, but you will still get it's Dolby TrueHD core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

I believe DTS:X will be the same, you will get it's DTS-HD MA core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

 I am sorry but I dont trust that. If I don't see Dolby Atmos HD MA etc.. on my Receiver I will go nuts.  Like you said Dolby atmos will have it's spatially coded metadata removed. 
This is HUGE to me. Basically broken Dolby atmos/ DTS: X.

So yeah... no apple tv for me unfortunately I can't understand some of these choices. 

Anyway so is there a mediaplayer that has ALL the several audio passthroughs I listed?

[wrxtasy]

For your Audio reqs:

Zidoo X9S
NVIDIA Shield
Himedia Q5/10 Pro
Most Intel machines running Windows
Nearly all Intel machines running LibreELEC Kodi Krypton (not sure if Apollo / Kaby Lake running Linux/LE have passthru audio issues fully sorted out)
Any AMLogic S9xx box running @kszaq's LibreELEC Kodi Krypton releases**

** LE forums searching would be needed for someone that has tested DTS:X on LE AML S9xx - there were a few demanding AVR audio guys in the forum there somewhere. I'm hazy with their exact test results. Best to ask on forum first.

[wesk05]

Hmm, so we are not quite there yet. I wonder if that only affects MrMC or Apps like Infuse and iTunes dynamic range switching as well ?
I've just noticed tvOS 11.2.5 has been released that could possibly inc. bug fixes.

EDIT
I have noticed commit's such as these in MrMC:
darwin: fixed bt709 incorrectly triggering HDR mode on tvOSfixup darwin: fixed bt709 incorrectly triggering HDR mode on tvOS

I haven't tried iTunes since it only supports *.mov (at least that is my understanding). Infuse is messed up. They are working to resolve the HDR issues.

Yeah, the reported issue is MrMC specific. The logic for HDR content detection was slightly flawed. The new patch will likely fix the issue.
 

Is this at the OS level? Via Netflix The Crown S01 is 2160p SDR and is playing in SDR mode on my TV with an ATV 4K. Are Netflix using 8 bit HEVC for 2160p SDR stuff, and only using 10 bit HEVC for HDR?
it looks as if the ATV4K is flagging Rec 709 colour space for this SDR 2160p content as well - or my TV is defaulting to it - as when I cycle from Auto to Rec 2020 I see a noted colour change, but when I cycle from Auto to Rec 709 I don't.
Is this only for 10 bit SDR stuff, or if you have HDR/SDR dynamic switching disabled at the OS level (or is this a MrMC thing)? My ATV 4K switches dynamically between HDR and SDR nicely on Netflix and Amazon Prime.

I haven't found any issue with Netflix or Amazon playback. It has now been confirmed that all the above mentioned issues are MrMC specific.

NB: Is is just me or is there no option for multiple quotes now?

[noggin]

Noggin already explained it but once again > Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA will be decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM and output to an AVR on the ATV 4K
This results is NO loss in Audio quality.

https://support.firecore.com/hc/en-us/ar...tions-tvOS-

Dolby Atmos will have it it's spatially-coded substream (metadata) removed, but you will still get it's Dolby TrueHD core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

I believe DTS:X will be the same, you will get it's DTS-HD MA core audio decoded to lossless multichannel LPCM.

I am sorry but I dont trust that.

Why? You trust your AVR to decode DTS HD MA and Dolby True HD to LPCM but don't trust an external device to? Or is it that you don't trust the open source DTS-HD MA or Dolby True HD decoding algorithms that Kodi (and ffmpeg) use?

If I don't see Dolby Atmos HD MA etc.. on my Receiver I will go nuts.

OK - I listen with my ears, not my eyes   If it helps Kodi can tell you you are listening to DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD...

Like you said Dolby atmos will have it's spatially coded metadata removed. 

Yes - if you have an Atmos or DTS:x set-up then you need bit streaming - and PCM Multichannel isn't a solution. But it is for many of us who have regular 5.1 or 7.1 set-ups and just want 48k/24bit DTS-HD MA or Dolby True HD.

This is HUGE to me. Basically broken Dolby atmos/ DTS: X.

Not broken - just not implemented.

It's very likely that Apple will support DD+ Atmos (as used by streaming services) I believe - so there will be some Atmos support I suspect.

So yeah... no apple tv for me unfortunately I can't understand some of these choices. 

You can't get that Apple, a content provider, isn't supporting codecs that are only officially available for optical discs (DTS:x and Dolby True HD Atmos are only available on optical discs aren't they?), a medium they don't support playback of'? I can't see Apple going out of their way to support playback of ripped optical discs when they sell movies themselves.

I suspect the most likely reason for Apple supporting spatial metadata-augmented audio codecs on the ATV4K will be when they start selling iTunes Store content that uses it, or one of their major streaming partners pushes for it.

[wrxtasy]

Just as a side note - even the older Apple TV 4 users will be getting a Firmware update that introduces tvOS Frame Rate matching functionality as well.

Apple tvOS FW 11.3 beta for the ATV 4K also includes the new DolbyVision / Sony "Low Latency" profile update so DV will work on problematic DV capable Sony TV's as well. Gotta say the speed of Firmware updates and bug fixing is impressive from Apple.

[Vlaves]

...
Gotta say the speed of Firmware updates and bug fixing is impressive from Apple.

Yeah they are really fast and theor software quality is great, but what the **** were they thinking when developing that remote! Sadly there is no good alternative remote (bluetooth) with direction buttons available...

[noggin]

Just as a side note - even the older Apple TV 4 users will be getting a Firmware update that introduces tvOS Frame Rate matching functionality as well.

Ooh - where did you discover that wrxtasy? That could be very good news for those who don't care about UHD and HDR but want a good platform for officially supported Netflix, Amazon etc. AND playback of local media in a Kodi-like environment.

Is that in the tvOS 11.3 update?

Apple tvOS FW 11.3 beta for the ATV 4K also includes the new DolbyVision / Sony "Low Latency" profile update so DV will work on problematic DV capable Sony TV's as well. Gotta say the speed of Firmware updates and bug fixing is impressive from Apple.

The 'low latency' profile is where DV metadata is sent using the HDMI dynamic metadata standard (which was introduced with HDMI 2.1 - but could be backported to an HDMI 2.0b device potentially) isn't it? Effectively it removes the need for the display to un-tunnel the metadata that previously Dolby have tunnelled with the video AIUI (and thus reduces the processing overhead and/or allows general purpose SoCs, rather than dedicated 'Dolby' hardware, to access DV metadata)?

[wrxtasy]

Ooh - where did you discover that wrxtasy? That could be very good news for those who don't care about UHD and HDR but want a good platform for officially supported Netflix, Amazon etc. AND playback of local media in a Kodi-like environment.

Is that in the tvOS 11.3 update?

https://9to5mac.com/2018/01/24/tvos-11-3-beta-1/

Yes the ATV4 from tvOS11 onwards also supports (10bit) hardware decoding of:
* HEVC SDR up to 1080p, 30 fps, Main/Main 10 profile

Some 2nd hand bargains can be had as users upgrade to ATV 4K's.
Gotta be better than the Advertising aggressive FireTV's for Amazon Video.

The 'low latency' profile is where DV metadata is sent using the HDMI dynamic metadata standard (which was introduced with HDMI 2.1 - but could be backported to an HDMI 2.0b device potentially) isn't it?
Effectively it removes the need for the display to un-tunnel the metadata that previously Dolby have tunnelled with the video AIUI (and thus reduces the processing overhead and/or allows general purpose SoCs, rather than dedicated 'Dolby' hardware, to access DV metadata) ?

Yes that is my understanding as well.

[noggin]

The ATV4 (not 4K) supporting frame rate switching is fantastic news. That makes the ATV4 a great fit for a general streaming platform if UHD and HDR aren't relevant to you (i.e. you have a 1080p SDR display)

I guess the HEVC support is to allow the higher quality HEVC 1080p Netflix streams to be decoded? (The 1080p HEVC stuff definitely looks better than the AVC stuff IMHO)

All the main pay-TV services in full quality with refresh switching, a nice UI, MrMC for a Kodi-like experience. Think the only downsides are a lack of bitstream support for HD Audio (though you do get lossless decoding of 5.1/7.1 48k/24bit DTS-HD and Dolby True HD), so no Atmos/DTS:x support currently, and I'm not sure how good the deinterlacing is for 1080i stuff.

I suspect Apple will update their platform to support DD+Atmos stuff - but I doubt it will support True HD+Atmos or DTS:x.

[wrxtasy]

The ATV4 ... I'm not sure how good the deinterlacing is for 1080i stuff.

I do not have a ATV4 but I believe MrMC defaults to YADIF for 1080i. ie half motion.

The ATV4K has enough CPU ponies to software decode 25/1080i H264 and do high quality full motion YADIF2X in MrMC and Kodi Krypton (which I sideloaded using Xcode)
Not sure if it was the recent Apple tvOS 11.2.5 update or recent MrMC testflight bug busting but TV channel switching, using TvH is virtually instantaneous now on the ATV 4K.

In fact everything seems to have extra zippiness since tvOS 11.2.5 dropped.

[noggin]

The ATV4 ... I'm not sure how good the deinterlacing is for 1080i stuff.

I do not have a ATV4 but I believe MrMC defaults to YADIF for 1080i. ie half motion.

I think most Live TV viewers still switch to Bob or Bob Inverted (as I used to when I used an ATV 4) as YADIF 1x (i.e. not YADIF 2x) is half motion and thus not that watchable for native 50i stuff.

[ragico]

Is this Apple device supporting 3D MVC (iso or mkv?)

[noggin]

Is this Apple device supporting 3D MVC (iso or mkv?)

 No. Apple have never distributed 3D content via their iTunes Store, nor have any major pay-TV streaming services that I know of. (The BBC did a tiny bit on iPlayer 5 or so years ago but apart from that it's only really been Blu-ray and VOD on pay-TV platforms like Sky and the US equivalents)

The only real source of 3D for media players is ripped Blu-rays - and Apple aren't in the business of supporting that. (See also support of HD Audio bit streaming)

Given that fewer and fewer TVs are being marketed with 3D I think its kind of on life-support (my 3 year old 4K UHD set supported passive 3D - the replacement for it has HDR, but dropped 3D)

[ozkhan1]

3D is a dead duck to the industry even though it has some loyal followers.. just never caught on as much as the jump from SD to HD