[Taomyn]

I'm trying to run XMBC on my Vista x64 HTPC.

I installed it using my admin account, ran it once and all seemed well - the GUI appeared and I could navigate the menus. Good.

So I logged out and logged in with my normal non-admin account which I use for day to day stuff, I then tried running XMBC again and all I get is a box titled "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library" saying: Runtime Error!

If I right-click the icon for XMBC and use "Run As", choose my admin user, XMBC runs, but I cannot set up a library and none of my settings are saved if I exit and go back in.

I can run everything else on this system using this account (Miro, VLC, Boxee) and am disappointed XMBC is handling it very well

Any advice?

[natethomas]

Install XBMC in portable mode. Or else install XBMC using your non-admin account while it is running in admin mode. The default install is tied to the account that installs it. Without that account running, XBMC will be confused.

[Taomyn]

Problem with using an admin account to install an application when logged in as a non-admin account is that unless the application is written correctly, it will not be accessible to the non-admin account. It's no different to what I have described above and have already tried - just now.

So what "ties" it to the account used for installation, the registry, a setting file or something else? I tried copying the APPDATA folder from the admin account but I get the same error.

[natethomas]

That I know of, it's primarily that information that can be found in the appdata/Roaming/XBMC folder.

As I understand it, Vista and Windows 7 do not like granting access to the program files folder. Thus, to resolve the issue, XBMC installs to your username/AppData folder instead. You will note that XBMC does not grant you the option to make accessible to all users. I don't know if that is purposeful or not, but it is how it works. I couldn't say if XBMC makes any registry changes.

So let me make sure I understand what you've tried. I know that you've logged out of your main profile and installed using your admin account, but have you tried simply installing from your non-admin, main profile? Before doing so, I suggest uninstalling from your admin account.

[natethomas]

I have a new question. Why do you not give your main account administrator privileges? You will always be notified if you try to access them. I can't think of any reason to give up these privileges unless you have a trigger happy kid, but if you can access a different account's administrative powers from your user account, the same problem exists.

[Taomyn]

Well it seems XBMC needs to rethink it's installer for Windows Vista and 7.

I just tried to install it by logging on as "MediaCentre" my non-admin account, then when UAC prompts, using the "Administrator" account. When the installer finishes and asks for the profile path, it says "C:\Users\Administrator\AppData\Roaming\XBMC" which if course cannot be accessed by "MediaCentre" and it all fails again.

You see, UAC doesn't raise a non-admin user to an admin, that only happens to users that are already an admin. It just asks for an admin account to be used and that's the user profile the application is installed under. It's basically just an automated "Run As" like XP has.

I can see the same thing happen when I upgrade Miro - if I allow the installer to run Miro at the end, I get an empty Miro (and a near heart attack the first time I did it). I then exit Miro and re-run it, and I get my normal settings back.

If can just find where XBMC stores where it looks for the profile on startup, I think I can fool it to use the correct location. Anyway, if Boxee can do it correctly, I cannot see why XBMC can't.

[Taomyn]

I have a new question. Why do you not give your main account administrator privileges? You will always be notified if you try to access them. I can't think of any reason to give up these privileges unless you have a trigger happy kid, but if you can access a different account's administrative powers from your user account, the same problem exists.

Amazing, after so many years of Windows critics moaning about the security, when we actually start using it properly, people then suggest throwing out. Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate the help and suggestions.

You see my HTPC should be as easy to use as possible and so the account I use has no password. Why should it need to when all I want it for is to watch videos or play music. However, what I don't want is for someone either by accident or deliberately, trashing or making system changes. Hence the non-admin account. I appreciate that UAC will ask me to elevate to admin, but I'd rather it didn't do it to just anyone.

[natethomas]

Ordinarily this would be the time I would say, "Code is always welcome." However, this time, rather than saying it, I'll just think it as hard as I can. Your tone, friend, is not one conducive to getting devs to feel sorry for your plight. And the delightful method by which you seemed to call me out for not "using it (security, windows, something?) properly" isn't gaining you any love on my account either, regardless of the backhanded thanks that followed.

I'll have you know, first of all, that I am not, nor was I ever, one of those individuals complaining about the "security" of windows. Further, I think intentionally creating a user account that does not have administrative rights is simple foolishness (and is certainly not "using it properly") unless you are creating it for small children or very old people. The UAC will always tell you when you are "trashing or making system changes." If you continue on and destroy your computer, that's your own fault. And if someone else does it, that's STILL your own fault, for allowing them to use your computer.

Unfortunately, at this point, I can't help you any further. If simply copying your AppData/Roaming/XBMC folder over to the same place in the account you want to use doesn't work, I don't know what will.

Good luck with that.

[WiSo]

Why should it need to when all I want it for is to watch videos or play music.

Because Windows requires admin rights for just simple things. For example we're using libcdio to access dvd drives the cross platform way. If you want to access it that way Windows requires admin rights. And this is only one issue.

When started without -p XBMC uses the user profile directory which it gets via Windows system functions. If its wrong than don't blame me.
If I would know everything I would have implemented it at once but here is the time where the usual "patches are welcome" is necessary. Don't complain make it better!

[Taomyn]

I think intentionally creating a user account that does not have administrative rights is simple foolishness (and is certainly not "using it properly")

Oh, you mean just like you would on all the other mainstream OSes such including but not limited to Ubuntu, Red Hat, OSX, oh and even Windows Server AD. Oh wait, no they don't.

Except for the very first user created on a Vista/Win7 box (excluding the Admin which like for example Ubuntu's root user is system generated and infact disabled), every subsequent account is a non-admin user by default and for good reasons. You shouldn't need admin rights to work on a system under normal conditions. Ever. Full stop. End of story. A simple and ignorable warning that you are about to do something stupid is frankly not good enough even for a seasoned IT user.

I wasn't attempting to call anyone out previously just frustrated at yet again being told that the only way to fix a Windows app is to fudge the security, but after this, I think you deserve to be.

[Taomyn]

Because Windows requires admin rights for just simple things. For example we're using libcdio to access dvd drives the cross platform way. If you want to access it that way Windows requires admin rights. And this is only one issue.

I see, but I wonder how the Boxee team are getting around this as I have no such issues with that and I'm using the same account.

When started without -p XBMC uses the user profile directory which it gets via Windows system functions. If its wrong than don't blame me.
If I would know everything I would have implemented it at once but here is the time where the usual "patches are welcome" is necessary. Don't complain make it better!

Ah, so maybe the shortcut is causing an issue. I'll double check it.

I'd love to be able to help in the coding, but it's not something I have ever done in what I would call the "modern era" - last time I was a full time programmer was back in the 80s I now work in a senior support role for a very large organisation with 10's of 1000's of users and I continually see the frustration with sub-ordinate tech's having to tackle software doesn't seem to be coded for non-admin users. No wonder 80-90% of our compromised systems are used by "admin'd" users we're often not given a choice if people need to work

[WiSo]

I see, but I wonder how the Boxee team are getting around this as I have no such issues with that and I'm using the same account.

Either you got the problem with the shortcut or Boxee fixed it but didn't synced back the sources to our svn

[natethomas]

I wasn't attempting to call anyone out previously just frustrated at yet again being told that the only way to fix a Windows app is to fudge the security, but after this, I think you deserve to be.

So... this means we aren't going to be friends?

[Taomyn]

Either you got the problem with the shortcut or Boxee fixed it but didn't synced back the sources to our svn

I installed from scratch again choosing the profile option, made sure to clean up any XBMC folders and checked the icon and it had "-p" - but it still failed.

I removed the "-p" from the shortcut and hey presto XBMC created new folders under the non-admin's APPDATA area and started up cleanly I made a quick change to the settings (changed the 1st weather location to my home town), quit and restarted. It kept the setting.

Maybe Boxee did fix it as they have "-p" as well but there installer doesn't ask the question about the profile vs program files.

[natethomas]

It's curious that the -p switch was in the link. Particularly as it seemed not to be when you initially installed it using the administrator account. I sort of feel the need to create some additional accounts now, just to see what might have caused that.

Also, it's possible that Boxee uses the old method. A few months back the XBMC crew changed the effect of the -p switch. I don't recall it's previous meaning, but presently it means portable and attempts to create your userdata folders within your program files folder.