[NeoDuck]

I'm currently using a rooted Amazon Fire TV Gen 1. I have it plugged into a network but also bring it with me on vacation along with a 2.5" portable HDD. There wasn't a lot of choices last year, but this year there are tons of choices, which is great! But, now, with so many choices, which one is the best player for running Kodi?

I plan to retire the AFTV1 for travel only and replace it with one of the new 2015 machines. I love how the old AFTV1 was rootable and I was able to install StickMount and have it easily read my portable HDD when I plug it into the USB port. I think the AFTV2 loses this feature, right? I also love the Bluetooth remote and I'm worried that the AFTV2's Wi-Fi remote will be as laggy as the Fire TV Android remote app.

Should I get an i3 ChromeBox and run Windows or OpenElec on it?

Are the Razor TV or Nvidia Shield rootable?

My movie library has about 3,000 files and all those thumbnails have pretty much filled up the tiney 5GB storage on my AFTV1, so more onboard storage would be nice. I also have a lot of remux MKV's, and sometimes, the AFTV1 runs the video kind of choppy.

Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

[wrxtasy]

Hiya Neo,

Lets narrow the focus first.....

Firstly, are you playing any codecs in containers that are causing some platforms problems ?
ie 29.97fps Interlaced VC-1 ?
Interlaced content such as mpeg2 / h264 Live TV ?
mpeg2 in .vob containers ?
What about HEVC and VP9 ?
Need HD Audio Passthrough ?
Android TV OS or just the usual Android Lollipop interface ?
RF Remote preferred ?
Android or OpenELEC ?
What about 1080p HD Netflix and other HD Apps ?
Dual Boot ?

[NeoDuck]

Hiya Neo,

Lets narrow the focus first.....

Firstly, are you playing any codecs in containers that are causing some platforms problems ? No
ie 29.97fps Interlaced VC-1 ? No
Interlaced content such as mpeg2 / h264 Live TV ? No
mpeg2 in .vob containers ? No
What about HEVC and VP9 ? No
Need HD Audio Passthrough ? Probably not?
Android TV OS or just the usual Android Lollipop interface ? Hmmm...I actually use Kodi 99% of the time and install addons made for Kodi, so the Kodi UI is what I'm used to.
RF Remote preferred ? That would be nice! But, the AFTV's BT remote works great. I'm just skeptical of a WiFi remote.
Android or OpenELEC ? Which one is better?
What about 1080p HD Netflix and other HD Apps ? Yes!
Dual Boot ? Nah.

Wow, you know a lot! So, what do you think?

[wrxtasy]

How much do you value smooth 23.976fps video playback, with proper video sync and Dynamic Refresh Rate Switching to allow this to happen automatically ?

If you do like silky smooth video playback, rule out the Nexus, Razor and FireTV2.

Then if you add....
Remote Control friendly (ie not Web Browser based) 1080p HD Netflix and other HD Apps, you are down to two devices.
Both will have fantastic Kodi support and both are Kodi sponsors.
These are plug and play devices. With minimal, if any remote and OS configuration needed.

• nVIDIA Shield
  
• and the new WeTek Core

The nVIDIA Shield is Android only and runs the more colourful Android TV OS, its also more powerful and will do up to 4K Netflix.
This is a 10-bit device as well, which is important if you want to playback 10-bit HEVC. I'm not sure of its hi10p Anime status.
http://kodi.wiki/view/NVIDIA_SHIELD_TV

WeTek Core (4K) will be cheaper, dual boot Android Lollipop / OpenELEC. It does very nice 23.976fps synced / 1080p Netflix plus other Android Apps. The IR / RF / Air Mouse remote is super responsive. 8-bit video playback on this one, so no hi10p Anime.
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=238923

The gap is narrowing now between running Android Kodi or OpenELEC Kodi, particularity when you get devices such as these two from companies that give you decent Firmware, with regular updates and bug fixes. OpenELEC has the advantage a wee bit as it gives you more Addon flexibility if you want to install Linux based Addons. Less bugs as well.

I still prefer OpenELEC for this Addon flexibility. But really like 23.976fps HD Netflix. too

PS. there is a link around here somewhere about moving Thumbnail storage to an external usb or SD card....

[NeoDuck]

Wow, that's a ton of good info, thank you!

Isn't 60fps supposed to be the "new thing"? I saw some 1080p 60fps video on YouTube and they look really sharp!

One thing that's sometimes annoying is when I watch epic series, like Harry Potter and there's a gorgeous scenic pan, the panning motion seems "jittery" or choppy. Would the synce FPS fix that?

[wrxtasy]

Yes, proper 23.976fps video sync and Dynamic Refresh Rate switching will give you lovely silky smooth video playback.
What you are annoyed with is called 3:2 pulldown judder, which is particularly evident during video camera panning.

Cinema pulldown 3:2 (telecine)

Personally I cannot stand it either. Once you have seen it and become annoyed with the horrible judder, there is no turning back or being satisfied from that point onwards. This is why I like the 23.976fps Netflix video sync on the WeTek so much. I believe the Shield does not do that for Netflix (please correct me anyone).

A lot of stuff on YouTube would already be recorded at 60fps, so displayed at 60Hz would give you a sharp picture with no judder.

Noggin will be here shortly to explain the history behind film being recorded at 23.976fps along with other mind bending Video insights

[wesk05]

I believe the Shield does not do that for Netflix (please correct me anyone).

Shield doesn't do it automatically, but you can set the refresh rate manually to 23.976Hz for both 1080p and 2160p (4K).

[Tinwarble]

As wrxtasy has stated, for Android either the Nvidia Shield or the Wetek Core are going to be your best bet.

Now, I don't own nor have a beta tested a Core like wrxtasy has, so I'll let him speak to how that preforms. I do own the Shield and have from just about the day that it came out, so I can speak as to how it preforms.

There are 2 sort of big differences between the Core and the Shield that you should probably know first off, that being that the Core runs standard Android as where the Shield runs Android TV. Both have pluses and minuses in the respect.

With the Cores standard Android you'll be able to install any app (that's compatible with its version of Android) directly from the devices Play Store app, that's the plus. The minus will be, even though you'll be able to install any app many of those will not be "remote" friendly. It's not the devices fault, it's just a matter that most apps are made for a touch screen. It also doesn't mean that you won't be able to use them, it just means you may be dragging out a mouse/keyboard. I also don't believe that you can install Android TV specific apps which are actually designed to be used with a remote, I can't really comment on that though and it might be something better left to wrxtasy to answer.

Now with the Shields Android TV OS (which is still really just Android underneath the TV centered UI), you can count on that any app you install will be (or at least should be) remote or game controller friendly, that is it's plus. It's minus is that you can only install Android TV compatible apps from the Play Store and this limits the number of apps that you can install that way. However, you can sideload pretty much any other app, but again, get ready to drag out the mouse/keyboard for those.

As for Kodi, the Shield does a very good job at playing 23.976 at the correct frame rate, as well, since the recent changes in Kodi auto frame rate switching seems to be working just as it should. The Shield can also pass-through HD audio, DTS-HD and TrueHD (as well as at least one person reporting that Dolby Atmos pass-through was working for them, though I can't independently confirm that), but it has yet to be implemented in Kodi. However in Jarvis, you can decode those formats and output them as 8 channel LPCM.

Also, library navigation is very fast on the Shield. Having a fairly large library and using Aeon Nox 4.x (the big one, not the newer less resource intensive Aeon Nox 5) the only thing that I have that is any faster is a Chromebox running OE, and it's just barely faster. Just for shear horsepower you're not going to find another ARM device that even comes close to the X1 in the Shield.

For Netflix, Hulu or any other video app, no, there's no auto frame rate switching for those, but like wesk05 stated, you can still manually set the frame rate. That said though, I just got through re-binge watching Daredevil again (before Jessica Jones arrives in a month) and I don't like 3:2 pulldown either, however, even keeping the Shield set to 60Hz I don't really see any judder. Your results may vary.

Now the the thing that I think that the Shield has over any other box that is out there or will be out there any time soon, and this is just my personal opinion, is that it has a much longer life span. This, as I stated already, has mostly to do with the X1 SoC the Shield has and that no other ARM SoC can really touch it, as well it may be some time for one to come out that does. When other boxes reach there EOL and the manufacture is ready to replace it with a new box, the Shield will still be relevant.

[wrxtasy]

Nicely written TinWarble.

I can confirm that Lollipop apps like Netflix are the usual Android 5.1.1 ones on the WeTek Core and not the Android TV OS ones like you would get on the Shield. Lollipop Apps seems to be a lot bigger with their icon presentation and visuals and more remote friendly than I remember in Android KitKat tho.
The Air Mouse function on the remote needs to be used to pause Netflix, its a minor inconvenience as the Core's Air Mouse is very accurate.

I will try and sideload an Android TV OS .apk of Netflix and see if that works as a test.
EDIT: Just tried > "This version of the Netflix App is not compatible with your device"

On my AMLogic C1+ (S805), Netflix would also not Auto Refresh Rate switch, so I could get silky smooth 23.976fps video. I actually found it a PITA in the end to manually switch output Refresh rates as I had to reboot the device to do this. And then of course change it back again to get a fluid Kodi GUI interface.

Next question, Is deinterlacing going to improve from blurry Bob in the Shield ?
The AMLogic deinterlacing quality is excellent on the Core as it is on all recent AMLogic SoC's.
This would stop a bunch of us even considering the Shield.

Also 29.97/59.94 Hz video sync on the Shield ?

[NeoDuck]

Yes, very good write up TinWarble...thank you!

Is the Shield rootable? I want to be able to run StickMount and mount some hard drives to it.

[Tinwarble]

Yes, very good write up TinWarble...thank you!

Is the Shield rootable? I want to be able to run StickMount and mount some hard drives to it.

Thanks guys.

Yes, I haven't rooted mine, but it is suppose to be easily rooted.

However, keep in mind that the Shield is getting a "M" update before the end of the year which should make StickMount unnecessary. You can already use hard drives as it is, but you just can't write to them. When "M" arrives that should be remedied.

Next question, Is deinterlacing going to improve from blurry Bob in the Shield ?
The AMLogic deinterlacing quality is excellent on the Core as it is on all recent AMLogic SoC's.
This would stop a bunch of us even considering the Shield.

Also 29.97/59.94 Hz video sync on the Shield ?

I'm not sure about deinterlacing. It's not something that I really need and probably something that only the devs (Nvidia or Kodi) could answer.

As for 29.97/59.94 video sync, again I don't know. I only have one 29.97 video and haven't tested it.

I will do some tests, both with deinterlacing and different frame rates when I get a few extra minutes and report back.

And as I said, the Shield is getting "M" before the end of the year and that will add new standard APIs to handle certain things. The 23.976 frame rate was actually backport from "M" to Lolllipop on the updated FW.

[essential]

Shield doesn't do it automatically, but you can set the refresh rate manually to 23.976Hz for both 1080p and 2160p (4K).

For Netflix, Hulu or any other video app, no, there's no auto frame rate switching for those, but like wesk05 stated, you can still manually set the frame rate. That said though, I just got through re-binge watching Daredevil again (before Jessica Jones arrives in a month) and I don't like 3:2 pulldown either, however, even keeping the Shield set to 60Hz I don't really see any judder. Your results may vary.

Sorry to hijack but after reading this I was wondering ... Kodi will automatically change to 23.976 when it dectects that frame rate, but Netflix won't?
So basically you have to go to:
Settings > Device > HDMI > Resolution to force the display refresh rate to 23.976 when watching Netflix content, then go switch it back when you're done?

Is there any talk about the Shield being able to auto switch Netflix as well at any point? Is that something Nvidia could do or something Netflix would have to build into the app?

[Tinwarble]

So basically you have to go to:
Settings > Device > HDMI > Resolution to force the display refresh rate to 23.976 when watching Netflix content, then go switch it back when you're done?

Is there any talk about the Shield being able to auto switch Netflix as well at any point? Is that something Nvidia could do or something Netflix would have to build into the app?

No, you can also install the TVHz app, launch it, switch frame rate, exit then launch Netflix.

The proper way for this to be implemented is for Netflix to add it to their app, just as Kodi has. It could be done by Netflix, but it's up to them to do so.

[wrxtasy]

With the Cores standard Android you'll be able to install any app (that's compatible with its version of Android) directly from the devices Play Store app, that's the plus. The minus will be, even though you'll be able to install any app many of those will not be "remote" friendly. It's not the devices fault, it's just a matter that most apps are made for a touch screen. It also doesn't mean that you won't be able to use them, it just means you may be dragging out a mouse/keyboard. I also don't believe that you can install Android TV specific apps which are actually designed to be used with a remote, I can't really comment on that though and it might be something better left to wrxtasy to answer.

No need to drag out anything. If you need to use mouse control you push a button on the remote control and use the Air Mouse function on the Core's responsive RF remote control. I hardly use this function for regular Apps. Also there are some Android TV OS Apps that come with the WeTek Core like YouTube which will operate exactly the same as YouTube on the Shield. There are probably more if I investigate and speak to the WeTek devs.

[Tinwarble]

No need to drag out anything. If you need to use mouse control you push a button on the remote control and use the Air Mouse function on the Core's responsive RF remote control. I hardly use this function for regular Apps. Also there are some Android TV OS Apps that come with the WeTek Core like YouTube which will operate exactly the same as YouTube on the Shield. There are probably more if I investigate and speak to the WeTek devs.

Yeah, it was the greater point of just that those apps aren't "remote" friendly.

As for any other Android TV apps, that's why I said you'd be the better person to ask.
It doesn't surprise me though that there are some Android TV apps pre-installed, but it would be surprising if Wetek is spoofing their device to make the Play Store think it is a Android TV device.