(2018-08-22, 08:05)VonMagnum Wrote: Is there a way to preserve Auro3D audio in a pure PCM format (i.e. Red Tails doesn't wrap Auro3D in DTS-MasterHD like other discs, but has it as pure PCM on the disc). If I use MakeMKV and dump the disc with PCM, it won't see the Auro3D track on my Marantz receiver (the DTS wrapped ones work fine). I'm not sure if the problem is MakeMKV or KODI or something else. It only sees PCM 5.1, not Auro3D signal at all. I have to play the disc via BD player to get it. Auro3D is encoded in the 24-bit PCM file in both cases, but I think the multi-channel output of KODI may be the issue. I'm not sure how a BD player does it differently (does PCM "bitstream" ? Passthrough setting makes no difference. Thanks.
(2018-08-30, 23:45)Krobar Wrote: It seems my Coffeelake based system works fine for MVC 3D using the HDMI 2.0 port. I have to use Stereoscopic Player with the Intel 3D option chosen in settings and the TV switches automatically to 3D and the amp confirms it is a native 3D signal; PQ seems good.Interesting result, as Intel has even particularly stated for it's newer NUC models, that there isn't any 3D MVC support at all (as they come only with the DP->HDMI 2.0a ports). What is the exact model number of your CPU? Could you try it with PowerDVD and MPCHC (or DSPlayer) + MadVR too?
I find this strange as lots of people complained the Cofeelake cant support MVC 3D on the HDMI 2.0 port; I'm beginning to think either recent driver updates have helped or the brand of LSPCON used effects it. No luck with the last Kodi MVC build though, just shows up as side by side and I cant seem to get it to even attempt full res 3D output (Maybe I'm doing something wrong).
(2018-08-22, 11:54)noggin Wrote:I've tried all three. It doesn't work under any of them.(2018-08-22, 08:05)VonMagnum Wrote: Is there a way to preserve Auro3D audio in a pure PCM format (i.e. Red Tails doesn't wrap Auro3D in DTS-MasterHD like other discs, but has it as pure PCM on the disc). If I use MakeMKV and dump the disc with PCM, it won't see the Auro3D track on my Marantz receiver (the DTS wrapped ones work fine). I'm not sure if the problem is MakeMKV or KODI or something else. It only sees PCM 5.1, not Auro3D signal at all. I have to play the disc via BD player to get it. Auro3D is encoded in the 24-bit PCM file in both cases, but I think the multi-channel output of KODI may be the issue. I'm not sure how a BD player does it differently (does PCM "bitstream" ? Passthrough setting makes no difference. Thanks.
Have you selected Best Match or fixed your PCM output in Kodi's System Audio settings. Optimised isn't always a good fit.
Quote:AIUI Auro3D is carried in a PCM signal - which wouldn't be described as being 'bit streamed or passed through' as it's not a compressed format like DD/DTS/TrueHD/DTS HD etc. Also make sure your volume is at 100% in Kodi?
Quote:I'm guessing there is some tunnelled audio data in the PCM signal that can be destroyed?
(2018-09-01, 03:42)VonMagnum Wrote:[/quote](2018-08-22, 11:54)noggin Wrote:I've tried all three. It doesn't work under any of them.(2018-08-22, 08:05)VonMagnum Wrote: Is there a way to preserve Auro3D audio in a pure PCM format (i.e. Red Tails doesn't wrap Auro3D in DTS-MasterHD like other discs, but has it as pure PCM on the disc). If I use MakeMKV and dump the disc with PCM, it won't see the Auro3D track on my Marantz receiver (the DTS wrapped ones work fine). I'm not sure if the problem is MakeMKV or KODI or something else. It only sees PCM 5.1, not Auro3D signal at all. I have to play the disc via BD player to get it. Auro3D is encoded in the 24-bit PCM file in both cases, but I think the multi-channel output of KODI may be the issue. I'm not sure how a BD player does it differently (does PCM "bitstream" ? Passthrough setting makes no difference. Thanks.
Have you selected Best Match or fixed your PCM output in Kodi's System Audio settings. Optimised isn't always a good fit.
Quote:AIUI Auro3D is carried in a PCM signal - which wouldn't be described as being 'bit streamed or passed through' as it's not a compressed format like DD/DTS/TrueHD/DTS HD etc. Also make sure your volume is at 100% in Kodi?
The Marantz 7010 receiver behaves a little differently with "bitstream" versus "multi-channel PCM over HDMI". You CAN apply a Dolby Surround Upmixer or Neural X or even the Auro3D upmixer to multi-channel PCM, but I don't think it normally detects encoded signals over multi-channel PCM (i.e. it probably expects PCM is already decoded by the player as that is normally the case whether through a PS4 or KODI, the multi-channel output is typically a bunch of already decoded channels). I assume something is different about Auro3D over PCM from say a Blu-Ray player that it's able to pick it up as opposed multi-channel output. My PS4 can decode Dolby or DTS to multi-channel PCM, but if it does so, the Atmos or X signal is not passed through. I just get 7.1 at most. The LG UP875 UHD BD player cannot and does not decode DTS or Dolby to multi-channel PCM, but it can play Auro3D that's encoded in PCM. Maybe there's no fundamental difference other than the decode versus just passing it on? If so, then that would imply that Auro3D "should" be able to be played back via a MKV file, but something is going wrong along the way that it's not seeing the data. I figured maybe the data was damaged/destroyed when I tried encoding Handbrake to FLAC 24, but it didn't detect it on the MakeMKV direct rip either and I can't get a more direct PCM dump than that.
I do know I tried turning off the "keep audio device alive" and "send inaudible noise" type settings in case they somehow interfered, but it still didn't detect it. There's always a chance MakeMKV is somehow destroying the signal also.
Quote:I'm guessing there is some tunnelled audio data in the PCM signal that can be destroyed?
I believe the Auro3D "height channels" are stored in the least significant bit(s) of the 24-bit multi-channel PCM signal. I think the base/bed channels are played from the 5.1 PCM that's already there. This then gives you 5.1 + however many height channels that are included (4-6 typically for Auro 9.1 to 11.1 while Auro 13.1 adds rear lower surrounds as well).
(2018-09-01, 12:50)Krobar Wrote:(2018-09-01, 03:42)VonMagnum Wrote:(2018-08-22, 11:54)noggin Wrote: Have you selected Best Match or fixed your PCM output in Kodi's System Audio settings. Optimised isn't always a good fit.I've tried all three. It doesn't work under any of them.
Quote:AIUI Auro3D is carried in a PCM signal - which wouldn't be described as being 'bit streamed or passed through' as it's not a compressed format like DD/DTS/TrueHD/DTS HD etc. Also make sure your volume is at 100% in Kodi?
The Marantz 7010 receiver behaves a little differently with "bitstream" versus "multi-channel PCM over HDMI". You CAN apply a Dolby Surround Upmixer or Neural X or even the Auro3D upmixer to multi-channel PCM, but I don't think it normally detects encoded signals over multi-channel PCM (i.e. it probably expects PCM is already decoded by the player as that is normally the case whether through a PS4 or KODI, the multi-channel output is typically a bunch of already decoded channels). I assume something is different about Auro3D over PCM from say a Blu-Ray player that it's able to pick it up as opposed multi-channel output. My PS4 can decode Dolby or DTS to multi-channel PCM, but if it does so, the Atmos or X signal is not passed through. I just get 7.1 at most. The LG UP875 UHD BD player cannot and does not decode DTS or Dolby to multi-channel PCM, but it can play Auro3D that's encoded in PCM. Maybe there's no fundamental difference other than the decode versus just passing it on? If so, then that would imply that Auro3D "should" be able to be played back via a MKV file, but something is going wrong along the way that it's not seeing the data. I figured maybe the data was damaged/destroyed when I tried encoding Handbrake to FLAC 24, but it didn't detect it on the MakeMKV direct rip either and I can't get a more direct PCM dump than that.
I do know I tried turning off the "keep audio device alive" and "send inaudible noise" type settings in case they somehow interfered, but it still didn't detect it. There's always a chance MakeMKV is somehow destroying the signal also.
Quote:I'm guessing there is some tunnelled audio data in the PCM signal that can be destroyed?
I believe the Auro3D "height channels" are stored in the least significant bit(s) of the 24-bit multi-channel PCM signal. I think the base/bed channels are played from the 5.1 PCM that's already there. This then gives you 5.1 + however many height channels that are included (4-6 typically for Auro 9.1 to 11.1 while Auro 13.1 adds rear lower surrounds as well).
(2018-09-01, 23:07)VonMagnum Wrote:(2018-09-01, 12:50)Krobar Wrote:(2018-09-01, 03:42)VonMagnum Wrote: I've tried all three. It doesn't work under any of them.
The Marantz 7010 receiver behaves a little differently with "bitstream" versus "multi-channel PCM over HDMI". You CAN apply a Dolby Surround Upmixer or Neural X or even the Auro3D upmixer to multi-channel PCM, but I don't think it normally detects encoded signals over multi-channel PCM (i.e. it probably expects PCM is already decoded by the player as that is normally the case whether through a PS4 or KODI, the multi-channel output is typically a bunch of already decoded channels). I assume something is different about Auro3D over PCM from say a Blu-Ray player that it's able to pick it up as opposed multi-channel output. My PS4 can decode Dolby or DTS to multi-channel PCM, but if it does so, the Atmos or X signal is not passed through. I just get 7.1 at most. The LG UP875 UHD BD player cannot and does not decode DTS or Dolby to multi-channel PCM, but it can play Auro3D that's encoded in PCM. Maybe there's no fundamental difference other than the decode versus just passing it on? If so, then that would imply that Auro3D "should" be able to be played back via a MKV file, but something is going wrong along the way that it's not seeing the data. I figured maybe the data was damaged/destroyed when I tried encoding Handbrake to FLAC 24, but it didn't detect it on the MakeMKV direct rip either and I can't get a more direct PCM dump than that.
I do know I tried turning off the "keep audio device alive" and "send inaudible noise" type settings in case they somehow interfered, but it still didn't detect it. There's always a chance MakeMKV is somehow destroying the signal also.
I believe the Auro3D "height channels" are stored in the least significant bit(s) of the 24-bit multi-channel PCM signal. I think the base/bed channels are played from the 5.1 PCM that's already there. This then gives you 5.1 + however many height channels that are included (4-6 typically for Auro 9.1 to 11.1 while Auro 13.1 adds rear lower surrounds as well).
If you have any DTS CD rips then they are a good way of determining if your setup will passthrough PCM unmolested (Bit perfect).
(2018-08-31, 09:31)Mount81 Wrote: So you have tested with this latest driver? Have you ever tried it with some previous drivers? "Fixed issues with viewing 3D videos on Stereoscopic 3D displays"-> that could mean a lots of completely different things what we cold just think of. It not details what, how and on what platforms and for what kind of IGP's did they fix it. I would be highly surprised if it's a general fix for all of the possible combinations, specially for the Megachip type converter issue concerned ones. So I'm highly anticipating some other user test with different configurations. But at least and last something promising happened.Just updated to that driver and it seems the same to me, works fine with Sterescopic player. I use the Amazon and Netflix add-ons more than 3D so am not really interested in the MVC V17 build (Really hoping there is a V18 MVC build at some point).
(2018-09-02, 11:36)Krobar Wrote:(2018-09-01, 23:07)VonMagnum Wrote:(2018-09-01, 12:50)Krobar Wrote:
If you have any DTS CD rips then they are a good way of determining if your setup will passthrough PCM unmolested (Bit perfect).
They work as long as they're stored in WAV files. They have never worked stored as ALAC, though (that first gen ATVs could play them in). I'm wondering if MakeMKV is even ripping them correctly. I know I read it had issues with PCM several years ago, but I assume that was more noticeable than this since clearly they play as PCM (just the Auro 3D code is apparently being lost or ignored for whatever reason).
Quote:I would try ripping an ISO of the same disc; if it works or not will help narrow downwhere the issue likely is (If it play as the ISO you should probably post this to the Makemkv forums).
(2018-09-03, 04:35)VonMagnum Wrote:This might be worth a separate thread in the support section. You are in the minority but it is likely still a Kodi bug.(2018-09-02, 11:36)Krobar Wrote:(2018-09-01, 23:07)VonMagnum Wrote:
If you have any DTS CD rips then they are a good way of determining if your setup will passthrough PCM unmolested (Bit perfect).
They work as long as they're stored in WAV files. They have never worked stored as ALAC, though (that first gen ATVs could play them in). I'm wondering if MakeMKV is even ripping them correctly. I know I read it had issues with PCM several years ago, but I assume that was more noticeable than this since clearly they play as PCM (just the Auro 3D code is apparently being lost or ignored for whatever reason).Quote:I would try ripping an ISO of the same disc; if it works or not will help narrow downwhere the issue likely is (If it play as the ISO you should probably post this to the Makemkv forums).
I ripped it as a full backup decrypted Blu-Ray (I don't think MakeMKV does ISO and I don't have another ripper) as the MakeMKV developer suggested I try as he says MakeMKV absolutely does not change the PCM output at all and that burning a copy from this rip would produce Auro3D. I ran this in KODI Krypton 17.6 on the NVidia Shield. Still no Auro3D detection. I did notice with the "7.1." output configuration setting in KODI that the "fixed" output showed surround back channels in the receiver's "info" (there's no surround back channels on this track; it's 5.1 PCM). Selecting "Best" showed only the 5.1 channels and PCM, but still no Auro3D detection there either. I tried setting KODI to 5.1 output. Still nothing. I can only assume it's something similar to trying to playback DTS CD files inside an ALAC container. They SHOULD work if ALAC is truly transparent (and they DO work in a 1st Gen AppleTV this way), but KODI must do 'something' during playback to disrupt the encoded signal because all I ever get is NOISE that way. DTS CD playback only works from WAV files in KODI for whatever unknown reason.
I'm just guessing that Team Kodi never considered LPCM playback might contain an immersive encoded format at some point in the future (and since it's not a 'popular' one there's probably even less interest, particularly when most of the movies have it wrapped in DTS Master HD which DOES work). If there's something even one bit off in the stream somewhere or whatever during playback (who knows what), it would lose detection, but might not have the slightest audible effect on normal PCM content playback. The extra height signals are supposedly stored in the least significant bit of each 5.1 track. A slight change there wouldn't likely be audible in the slightest with regular PCM, but would screw up the signal. I thought maybe it was the "keep audio device alive" button or whatever, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I could create a log if there's any developer interest, but if not, I'm just considering it unplayable from KODI and hope when I get my Zidoo that its own player might have a chance. Otherwise, I simply have to play the disc the old fashioned way.
(2018-09-04, 22:10)Krobar Wrote:Not necessary. They've never addressed a single thing I've ever reported in over 9 years so I don't expect them to start now, especially for something that esoteric that affects maybe 2 people on the entire planet (i.e. Most Auro3D users use the disc). I'll just play it off the disc.(2018-09-03, 04:35)VonMagnum Wrote:This might be worth a separate thread in the support section. You are in the minority but it is likely still a Kodi bug.(2018-09-02, 11:36)Krobar Wrote: They work as long as they're stored in WAV files. They have never worked stored as ALAC, though (that first gen ATVs could play them in). I'm wondering if MakeMKV is even ripping them correctly. I know I read it had issues with PCM several years ago, but I assume that was more noticeable than this since clearly they play as PCM (just the Auro 3D code is apparently being lost or ignored for whatever reason).Quote:I would try ripping an ISO of the same disc; if it works or not will help narrow downwhere the issue likely is (If it play as the ISO you should probably post this to the Makemkv forums).
I ripped it as a full backup decrypted Blu-Ray (I don't think MakeMKV does ISO and I don't have another ripper) as the MakeMKV developer suggested I try as he says MakeMKV absolutely does not change the PCM output at all and that burning a copy from this rip would produce Auro3D. I ran this in KODI Krypton 17.6 on the NVidia Shield. Still no Auro3D detection. I did notice with the "7.1." output configuration setting in KODI that the "fixed" output showed surround back channels in the receiver's "info" (there's no surround back channels on this track; it's 5.1 PCM). Selecting "Best" showed only the 5.1 channels and PCM, but still no Auro3D detection there either. I tried setting KODI to 5.1 output. Still nothing. I can only assume it's something similar to trying to playback DTS CD files inside an ALAC container. They SHOULD work if ALAC is truly transparent (and they DO work in a 1st Gen AppleTV this way), but KODI must do 'something' during playback to disrupt the encoded signal because all I ever get is NOISE that way. DTS CD playback only works from WAV files in KODI for whatever unknown reason.
I'm just guessing that Team Kodi never considered LPCM playback might contain an immersive encoded format at some point in the future (and since it's not a 'popular' one there's probably even less interest, particularly when most of the movies have it wrapped in DTS Master HD which DOES work). If there's something even one bit off in the stream somewhere or whatever during playback (who knows what), it would lose detection, but might not have the slightest audible effect on normal PCM content playback. The extra height signals are supposedly stored in the least significant bit of each 5.1 track. A slight change there wouldn't likely be audible in the slightest with regular PCM, but would screw up the signal. I thought maybe it was the "keep audio device alive" button or whatever, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I could create a log if there's any developer interest, but if not, I'm just considering it unplayable from KODI and hope when I get my Zidoo that its own player might have a chance. Otherwise, I simply have to play the disc the old fashioned way.
