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**patseguin** · 2015-01-19, 17:22

(2015-01-19, 12:42)LastCoder Wrote: Hi all,

I guess Confluence is best new users - and that's why the default- Skin.

I agree, Confluence could be polished up a bit (some high res gfx, some better color themes), but don't forget - first time users have a lot to learn - how to use scrappers, install addons and so one - most skin options are for more advanced users, who know what it's all about ..

Btw. I HATE that flat Metro UI design at all and all the boring upcoming flat skins around that "concept" - and personally I think Persona Skin suckz from the esthetical point of view - flat gray "buttons" - wow, last seen something ugly like this in the 90's ...

... and even if like for example "1080" Skin, it's got no high WAF !

At the outside I would choose Titan or Black Glass Nova as new default skins - eyecandy and easy to use ..

So long

LCS

I agree. I'm not a fan of this "flat" look. Just because MS made the metro interface people are trying to copy it.

Piers · 2015-01-20, 13:54

A flat look has a functional time and place, although it's certainly not always required. Personally I'm against 1080XF being considered for a default skin - it's not basic and new users will find it hard to use.

A reworked Confluence would be more than sufficient.

Hedda · (This post was last modified: 2015-01-22, 15:54 by Hedda.)

Both Apple iOS 8 (8.x) and Google's Android 5.0 (Material Design) / Android TV (Leanback) GUI's also both have a super flat and simple designs.

https://developer.android.com/design/mat...index.html
https://www.apple.com/ios/whats-new/design/

By now those old previous fake/faux-3D visual designs is looking a bit dated today, they did not really stand the test of time.

I like a flat and simple design, it is easy on the eyes and mind, it is just design to to be functional.

Why not just do what Apple did between iOS 7 and iOS 8, simply update the current Confluence skin and its assets to look a little more flat?

Checkout Google's Lessons to Design Guidelines and Layout for Building TV Apps

https://developer.android.com/training/t...index.html

Let cover images/posters/backdrops with fancy and smooth animation transitions in media libraries make up the WOW-factor in the instead.

LastCoder · (This post was last modified: 2015-01-22, 14:15 by LastCoder.)

(2015-01-21, 14:50)Hedda Wrote: .. I like a flat and simple design, it is easy on the eyes and mind, it is just design to to be functional...

Yeah, but Kodi is more than just functional .. it's fun and should look like fun. If someone wants a functional mediacenter - just install VLC ..

(2015-01-21, 14:50)Hedda Wrote: Why not just do what Apple did between iOS 7 and iOS 8, simply update the current Confluence skin and its assets to look a little more flat?

Agree with updating Confluence in general .. the work is in progress - http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=212898 - suggestions are welcome !

(2015-01-21, 14:50)Hedda Wrote: Checkout Google's Lessons to Design Guidelines and Layout for Building TV Apps

.. and check the guidelines years ago and in future - "design guidelines" are nothing more than Fashion Trends .. they come and go and come and go .. and like Fashion Trends they are set by global brands ..

An interface is not simple to use just because it's got a flat look (just look at the trillions of "flat" skins WIP ..) - all the metro ui style flat Skins provide an information overkill with tons of buttons, scrolling texts and pictures ..

Apples success is founded on simplicity - less options, simple and nice ui .. with other words - high WAF ;-)

So long

LCS

Hedda · 2015-01-22, 16:02

(2015-01-22, 14:10)LastCoder Wrote:
(2015-01-21, 14:50)Hedda Wrote: .. I like a flat and simple design, it is easy on the eyes and mind, it is just design to to be functional...
Yeah, but Kodi is more than just functional .. it's fun and should look like fun. If someone wants a functional mediacenter - just install VLC
...

Apples success is founded on simplicity - less options, simple and nice ui .. with other words - high WAF ;-)

I'm guessing that you missed my last comment about letting cover-images/posters/backdrops with fancy and smooth animation transitions in media libraries make up for the WOW-factor in the GUI instead.

You can get the best of both worlds, have simple interface for high WAF and yet also have it look very cool for that extra WOW-factor by using fancy animation transitions and cover-images/posters/backdrops.

So I think that we are kind-of on the same page, or at least in the same book.

thedeadman · 2015-01-25, 01:39

Quote:My main HTPCs are both Atom/ION systems, and every skin except Confluence seems to struggle and is horribly sluggish. When all's said and done, eye-candy is great, but the main purpose of the interface is to be navigable quickly and effectively, so all the bells and whistles in the world fail if it makes the experience worse.

I couldn't agree more on the points raised here. Having said that, Maximinimalism should absolutely fly on Atom based systems. Have you tried it Prof Yaffle?

tential · 2015-01-25, 22:31

(2015-01-19, 17:22)patseguin Wrote:
(2015-01-19, 12:42)LastCoder Wrote: Hi all,

I guess Confluence is best new users - and that's why the default- Skin.

I agree, Confluence could be polished up a bit (some high res gfx, some better color themes), but don't forget - first time users have a lot to learn - how to use scrappers, install addons and so one - most skin options are for more advanced users, who know what it's all about ..

Btw. I HATE that flat Metro UI design at all and all the boring upcoming flat skins around that "concept" - and personally I think Persona Skin suckz from the esthetical point of view - flat gray "buttons" - wow, last seen something ugly like this in the 90's ...

... and even if like for example "1080" Skin, it's got no high WAF !

At the outside I would choose Titan or Black Glass Nova as new default skins - eyecandy and easy to use ..

So long

LCS

I agree. I'm not a fan of this "flat" look. Just because MS made the metro interface people are trying to copy it.

Yet a default skin should be easy for the vast majority of people to use.

Everyone is shifting to a flat look. You may not like that look, but do you use the default skin in Kodi anyway?

IMO, if a "flat" look helps the majority of new/nontech Kodi users navigate Kodi more intuitively then it should be the default skin.

It matters most to new/nontech users so it should be catered to them.

**patseguin** · 2015-01-26, 01:58

I guess it is possible to incorporate flat and still look elegant, like OS X 10.10. I think all our skin devs do a fantastic job, I'm just not a fan of something that use a flat single color, it is just boring. Kodi needs to look elegant and fun to use along with being functional. I suppose maybe we are tired of Confluence mostly because it's been around so long. Probably regardless of what is default, I personally will always use Bello.

**natethomas** · 2015-01-26, 02:05

(2015-01-26, 01:58)patseguin Wrote: I guess it is possible to incorporate flat and still look elegant, like OS X 10.10. I think all our skin devs do a fantastic job, I'm just not a fan of something that use a flat single color, it is just boring. Kodi needs to look elegant and fun to use along with being functional. I suppose maybe we are tired of Confluence mostly because it's been around so long. Probably regardless of what is default, I personally will always use Bello.

That last sentence is definitely sort of the critical bit. Any kind of new default skin is just that: a default skin. Users looking for the eye candy can always switch to what they've always been using or anything else.

The trouble with most other skins has always been that they sometimes sacrifice the simplicity that confluence brings to the table for flash, or conversely they sacrifice some features of confluence in favor of looking simpler. The really difficult part of putting together a new skin, without a doubt, will be striking that balance of a fully featured app without losing the simplicity.

Piers · (This post was last modified: 2015-01-26, 02:20 by Piers.)

Why not a skin with two texture sets? One flat and one non-flat. Solves issues for both crowds and provides and updated default UI that Kodi so desperately needs.

However, to keep things simple, a new texture set for Confluence might be the best option - I made one a few months ago. There are also numerous completed ones which would work well. That way the default skin code is always going to work, but the new textures just make it appear new.... if that makes sense.

**patseguin** · 2015-01-26, 02:26

(2015-01-26, 02:05)natethomas Wrote:
(2015-01-26, 01:58)patseguin Wrote: I guess it is possible to incorporate flat and still look elegant, like OS X 10.10. I think all our skin devs do a fantastic job, I'm just not a fan of something that use a flat single color, it is just boring. Kodi needs to look elegant and fun to use along with being functional. I suppose maybe we are tired of Confluence mostly because it's been around so long. Probably regardless of what is default, I personally will always use Bello.

That last sentence is definitely sort of the critical bit. Any kind of new default skin is just that: a default skin. Users looking for the eye candy can always switch to what they've always been using or anything else.

The trouble with most other skins has always been that they sometimes sacrifice the simplicity that confluence brings to the table for flash, or conversely they sacrifice some features of confluence in favor of looking simpler. The really difficult part of putting together a new skin, without a doubt, will be striking that balance of a fully featured app without losing the simplicity.

Yeah, agreed. Perhaps something a little flatter but still gave enough flash to not look boring. I'd like something that kind of relates to the hew Kodi logo such as using the same font, colors, etc.

**natethomas** · 2015-01-26, 02:55

(2015-01-26, 02:20)Piers Wrote: Why not a skin with two texture sets? One flat and one non-flat. Solves issues for both crowds and provides and updated default UI that Kodi so desperately needs.

However, to keep things simple, a new texture set for Confluence might be the best option - I made one a few months ago. There are also numerous completed ones which would work well. That way the default skin code is always going to work, but the new textures just make it appear new.... if that makes sense.

Bit like this, you mean? http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201170

Do you have a link to your version?

~~Ned Scott~~ · 2015-01-26, 03:47

(2015-01-26, 02:55)natethomas Wrote: Bit like this, you mean? http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201170

Do you have a link to your version?

I normally loath flat designs, but that mod looks fantastic!

thedeadman · (This post was last modified: 2015-01-26, 11:57 by thedeadman.)

Design is good deal more than just aesthetics. Flat, not flat, round edges, square edges, "skeuomorphic", bollocks-buzzword-free... Visual trends, they come and they go. Eye-candy, like real candy, is nice at first, but after a day or so you just get a bit sick of it.

It worries me a little that an awful lot of skinners out there just copy whatever fresh new bollocks comes along, constantly baited by selfish sycophants on the WIP skins forum. No-one (Google, Apple, Mozilla, least of all myself) has nailed the 10-foot interface. Google et al should be copying from us, not the other way around!

Piers · 2015-01-26, 19:32

(2015-01-26, 02:55)natethomas Wrote:
(2015-01-26, 02:20)Piers Wrote: Why not a skin with two texture sets? One flat and one non-flat. Solves issues for both crowds and provides and updated default UI that Kodi so desperately needs.

However, to keep things simple, a new texture set for Confluence might be the best option - I made one a few months ago. There are also numerous completed ones which would work well. That way the default skin code is always going to work, but the new textures just make it appear new.... if that makes sense.

Bit like this, you mean? http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=201170

Do you have a link to your version?

I didn't post my version as there didn't seem to be a need. I'll do another version now - a pure texture mod based on the latest Confluence with no code changes. I'll post screens when it's completed as well as a download link. Shouldn't take more than a few hours.