[nickr]

But we aren't talking about running kodi, we are talking about servers.

Anyway, each to their own. Quite happy to see the wiki improved in relation to the vexed issue of windows file serving.

[levi.baker88]

Given the few people that have commented, I take it we are in favour of removing any comment about Windows Live Sign-In from the wiki due to Kodi (xbmc) no longer supporting Xbox.

I would suggest removing all the Windows XP related content as it is not supported by Kodi

Can you please provide a forum thread to backup your claim as that can be referenced within the wiki upon removal of Windows XP information.

Straight from the Kodi team's official software requirements:

http://kodi.wiki/view/Windows
2. Requirements

OS minimum to run Kodi: Windows Vista.

Thanks, I will reference that somewhere.

[BatterPudding]

Some confusing feedback in here. Believe me when I say there is logic to my madness. The instructions I wrote may look long, but they are just full of images and overly verbal on the steps. Shortcuts can be taken, but then you end up with messy things you don't want (like extra users at the login welcome screen).

Some of this can be simplified by just using the everyone share on the Public Folders, but I know many people prefer to choose where they put their files. This was about putting the user in control of exactly which folders are shared on their "server".

Most likely people want to share the Music and Video folders they already have in their user account, but they then trip over the need for a password when using Windows networking. Hence my creation of a new user to avoid that confusion. If they already have a password they use on the PC at logon then they can use that instead.

By digging down to the dialogs it also allows people to solve problems when things don't work. I've seen people setup a C:\SHARE\ before but spend ages troubleshooting it not realising that their network user has share rights but not local file rights.

And why on earth do people still want to map drives? KODI is perfectly happy with smb://SERVER/SHARE/ and will also keep the username and password and use it when needed.

With the naming of SMB vs SAMBA I agree it is a confusing one as neither term makes sense to the average user when talking about Microsoft networks as neither label is ever used in the OS. As the document is being written for a Microsoft Windows user the term should really be "Microsoft Network" or a less geeky term. I stuck with SAMBA to help an overlap for the linux guys as this is about working together.

And to keep the linux guys happier I'll post up half a dozen lines you can type at a command prompt to do the same trick. Many people are happier with the mouse and dialog boxes which is why I started there.

[BatterPudding]

1. Ensure PCs/Servers are members of the same Workgroup
2. On the server, create a user account with a password with required permissions to access media shares on your server
3. Logon to client PCs with username/password (verifying you can access the media shares and media on your server through Windows Explorer)
4. If you need to logon to the client PC with a different username for some reason, map a drive (or better, make persistent maped driver to server's ipc$ share) using the Kodi username/password

Yes that is the simplest way. Funnily enough, it's called sharing within Homegorup in Windows.

"Homegroup in Windows" uses a different user to do its sharing, and I thought it was running over IPv6. Does KODI talk to a Homegroup only machine as I don't see the homegroup shares on my KODI setup unless I look into UPnP.

I was intentionally trying to stay away from mentioning Homegroup sharing in a SAMBA tutorial. Especially as the test case I am working with is running KODI on an Amazon Fire so needs to server to be pure SAMBA

[BatterPudding]

But I have a question. Is the need for going down the rabbit hole and showing everyone the wizardry of user groups, etc really the right path?

After all setting down a common work group and either using or not using homecult, making a few file share changes via gui, and simply patching sources through a standard SMB: source seems to work just fine, and that's what really needs to be pinged on in my opinion.

And this is what my tutorial shows. Just with the added extra of creating a new user. Instead of creating that new user I could have said to give your logon user a password. Or set things to an everyone share. Which, now I think about it, would make the tutorial simpler for those who don't care too much.


I'll experiment with a "bare bones" version later today which just uses the Share With wizard and the everyone user group. Though this is going to hit a problem if the KODI is running on a PC that does not have a password as its attempted SMB login will fail.

Truthfully the lowest common denominator simply wants to click click watch, than potentially jack their system with the nasa version. Just my opinion.

I'll knock out the version using minimal user changes on the server, but that will then need a FAQ to explain why certain events happen. The extra steps in the original tutorial are all based around previous "gotchas" that have been tripped over during the years. Doing those extra steps at the start avoids headaches in the long run.

[Redwingsfansfc]

Most likely people want to share the Music and Video folders they already have in their user account, but they then trip over the need for a password when using Windows networking. Hence my creation of a new user to avoid that confusion. If they already have a password they use on the PC at logon then they can use that instead.

True - or they could keep it KISS and share the instance with no password (turning off password protections), and everyone allowed (or specific users if they have family onboard). Trust me - I like your ideas. direct authentication and access to cut down on confusion - but there is a point between taking the end user high road (Weird Al "white n nerdy), or the low road (I'm dangerous because I know how to right click) for instructional value. With the latter - those people need to understand user groups outside of KODI forums. And the former... well - MEEP MEEP. They already get it.

I guess what I am getting at without rambling too much... like I said "click click watch" covers the need to get KODI running. Users and Groups are basic windows tasks that should be atleast understood by the HTPC novice before even playing the game.

As this post http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=42708 states in section C. This isn't a WIN HELP forum.

With the naming of SMB vs SAMBA I agree it is a confusing one as neither term makes sense to the average user when talking about Microsoft networks as neither label is ever used in the OS. As the document is being written for a Microsoft Windows user the term should really be "Microsoft Network" or a less geeky term. I stuck with SAMBA to help an overlap for the linux guys as this is about working together.

And to keep the linux guys happier I'll post up half a dozen lines you can type at a command prompt to do the same trick. Many people are happier with the mouse and dialog boxes which is why I started there.

Remember this is WIN SMB we are talking about and in a WIN support forum. All Linux (etc) comments literally should be deleted. This is not a mixed how to Linux and Win happily through the end of time. thats what http://kodi.wiki/view/Samba is for.

And those that want to mate disparate platforms (Kirk and the Green Lady) should also have a basic understanding of both before doing the deed.


Anyways, it sounds like I am crapping in your yard. But really I am not. Just devils advocate and making sure scope creep doesn't take up everyones time. Really I am just an idiot staying sober long enough to type this and have no idea what I am even yammering on about. .

[BatterPudding]

When I get time during the week I'll make a more basic version for you redwing. I get where you are coming from, but this tutorial is from years of solving this exact problem. Telling people to turn off the security on their home PCs never seems like a sensible idea to me.

I did not write this tutorial to try and show off that I know how to right click. I am trying to help here with a solution that I know works the same for all versions of Microsoft Windows. IMHO turning off password protection is more geeky as you have to supply different instructions for each version of Windows.

I can already see how I can make you a variant of this without creating a user and relying on an everyone share rights instead. Though that will lead to other issues instead.


The only reason I was mentioning Linux in this thread is due to the various snipping comments from Linux users. It is also very common that people want to link together OS systems they don't understand. I thought the point of the support forum here *is* for those people who are not used to that other OS to get the OS specific parts to work for them.

[Redwingsfansfc]

When I get time during the week I'll make a more basic version for you redwing. I get where you are coming from, but this tutorial is from years of solving this exact problem. Telling people to turn off the security on their home PCs never seems like a sensible idea to me.

Hey its not for me - its for the masses. My crap works. and as to the security - yes I am an IT professional as well so I get it. But we are talking home networking to media shares. Not PII and HIPA information. Therefore the lowest common denominator generally has their crap wide open for access anyways. The medium to high denominators are already on this road, or past it.

I did not write this tutorial to try and show off that I know how to right click. I am trying to help here with a solution that I know works the same for all versions of Microsoft Windows. IMHO turning off password protection is more geeky as you have to supply different instructions for each version of Windows.

Didn't say that you were showing off... I was making a passive comment about those that get paid by the click - and don't understand what they are doing. White n Nerdy (high skill) vs Button Clicks (lowwwwww skill)

I can already see how I can make you a variant of this without creating a user and relying on an everyone share rights instead. Though that will lead to other issues instead.

Again. its not for me. My crap works. and BTW I am using the basic everyone share rights - and no issues in 3 versions of Kodi.

Plus last I saw (long ago) when adding a source with SMB on KODI - isn't the U/P cleartext anyways? Just asking.

The only reason I was mentioning Linux in this thread is due to the various snipping comments from Linux users. It is also very common that people want to link together OS systems they don't understand. I thought the point of the support forum here *is* for those people who are not used to that other OS to get the OS specific parts to work for them.

Yes but *this* support forum is for WIN. And the SMB wiki is for WIN.

Back to the booze for me.

[Ned Scott]

Just a little advice. When you are faced with instructions that can either be easy or really in-depth, do both. Label both sets of instructions and either put them on different pages or with different page headers on the same page. Put the basic stuff first, then put your advanced notes below that, making sure it's clear which is which.

For example: Log file (wiki).

I know the SMB Windows instructions are already on a sub-page, but we can either made another sub page or just rename the page. However you guys want to do it. The wiki is an open book, and you can arrange things in many different ways.

[natethomas]

I'm a bit confused why we removed the The Process section entirely when it Just Worked ™ and now there doesn't appear to be an actual guide for sharing using SMB at all in the wiki. There is a link to some Windows 7 Homegroup page, but there is no explanation for why that link is important or what it accomplishes. Further, this link forces the user to make another click to get an answer when previously they could have simply read the answer on the wiki page itself.

...At least I assume it does. I have a working system based on the old method that I wrote, and there's no chance I'm going to mess with that if there isn't a clear and concise explanation provided in the wiki for why this new(?) method is better.

Put another way, I'm extremely opposed to forcing users off the wiki to get answers that the wiki itself should supply.

Also, +1 for making BatterPudding's solution an advanced tutorial. If you have to type anything in Windows, it means your guide is too complicated for beginners. And that's doubly true if the thing you have to type includes the extension .msc. Though creating a new user also qualifies as too complicated. If people wanted to type in an OS, they'd use Linux, or they'd be completely desperate because nothing else was working.

Finally, kudos to the security folks in the crowd, but requiring a locked down password for SMB doesn't just make sharing more complicated on the server side, it makes sharing more complicated on the client side. Sharing to everyone means the files are simply accessible. Requiring a password means that every new client of Kodi gets to spend 20 minutes trying to remember what the password was for their SMB share, rather than just adding a folder (which is already more complicated than it should really be).

Simply put guys, while I'm happy that we're trying to fix the broken things, I get the impression we're also trying to fix the unbroken things too.

tl;dr:

1. Requiring windows users to type anything (even a username and password) is too complicated for a Windows beginners guide.
2. Any and all instructions should be on the wiki. There is no exception. If you want to link away from the wiki, it should be for further reading or through embedding, like how we handle showing videos at the end of the written instructions.
3. Requiring a password for an SMB share is also too complicated for a beginners guide.

evidence:

Evidently we're also requesting evidence to support the above claims. My evidence is that I've been handling support for Kodi/XBMC (and particularly Kodi/XBMC for Windows) since roughly 2008. If you think something is simple enough for Windows users, you're wrong. It can never be simple enough. We can only strive towards perfect simplification, we can never achieve it. Most Windows users can't install an add-on to provide a debug file link. Quite a lot aren't aware that a library exists in Kodi at all. If you tell them they need to type something to make sharing in Windows work, they'll probably that same day go out and buy an external harddrive so they don't have to follow those directions.

[BatterPudding]

The ID-10T version of my SMB guide will appear later in the week. That will stick to a plain "everyone" share of the user's normal Music and Video folders. I will be working in "brain removed" mode. Which is easy as I have many clients like that.

I ran out of time and motivation at the weekend to do anything more. Though what is noticeable is that abedrax managed to get through the tutorial okay. Not all Windows users are idiots.

[jjd-uk]

Surely the simplest way is:
1. Ensure PCs/Servers are members of the same Workgroup
2. On the server, create a user account with a password with required permissions to access media shares on your server
3. Logon to client PCs with username/password (verifying you can access the media shares and media on your server through Windows Explorer)
4. If you need to logon to the client PC with a different username for some reason, map a drive (or better, make persistent maped driver to server's ipc$ share) using the Kodi username/password

This is the one... but even more simplification to add as you don't need to login as the same user as the client PCs. You also don't need to map a network drive.

Example: I am logged in as FRED on the PC where I run KODI. I go into KODI to add a new source via SMB. When I navigate to the server to add the source KODI quite happily will login to the SMB share with a different username and password and then remember it. This is how I have always used KODI.


You do realise what this thread is already showing. KODI works so well over SMB that no one really noticed the Wiki page was not relevant.

I'm sure I've read from the devs that you should avoid mapping network drives in Windows and purely rely on the internal Kodi smb networking, as conflicts can be caused between the Windows mapping and Kodi's smb implementation.

[natethomas]

I ran out of time and motivation at the weekend to do anything more. Though what is noticeable is that abedrax managed to get through the tutorial okay. Not all Windows users are idiots.

This is true. And to be fair, there are idiots everywhere. I was really more just making a point about trying to help the lowest common denominator of folks.

[levi.baker88]

May I remind everyone that this is still a work in progress. The wiki page has a clean up banner and a couple of sentences also highlighting the fact it isn't complete.

I'm a bit confused why we removed the The Process section entirely when it Just Worked ™

There were a couple reasons for this:

- information being referenced was for a considerably older version of Kodi (also Windows 7, as it continually recieves updates too) and for a now unsupported platform.

- It didn't just work, when statements like "you must" or "will not' are implied, they are very defintive and it generally means that you aren't going to have issues, which wasn't the case.

- People are lazy, it is just a simple fact and people generally don't won't to read a novel when trying to get a quick fix.

There is a link to some Windows 7 Homegroup page, but there is no explanation for why that link is important or what it accomplishes. Further, this link forces the user to make another click to get an answer when previously they could have simply read the answer on the wiki page itself.

Thank you for highlighting that a reason is required, I will endeavour to have one included. The link is provided for a couple of reasons:

- In comparison to text, people can actually see what they need to do and not stuff something else up by misinterpreting any textual information given

- The link is from the source (Windows) if they can't get it right, well, there are bigger issues.

- Windows have done the leg work, why duplicate what can already be found (rather easily too) and waste time.

- Also, it's one click, not exactly an effort. Almost all web browsers have 'tabbed browsing' as default.

I have a working system based on the old method that I wrote, and there's no chance I'm going to mess with that if there isn't a clear and concise explanation provided in the wiki for why this new(?) method is better.

This is probably something all Windows users could agree on, if it's working, don't F**k with it. But not everyone reading the wiki will be an established Kodi user. However, I am in the process of providing a very clear and very concise method.

Also, +1 for making BatterPudding's solution an advanced tutorial. If you have to type anything in Windows, it means your guide is too complicated for beginners. And that's doubly true if the thing you have to type includes the extension .msc. Though creating a new user also qualifies as too complicated. If people wanted to type in an OS, they'd use Linux, or they'd be completely desperate because nothing else was working.

Finally, kudos to the security folks in the crowd, but requiring a locked down password for SMB doesn't just make sharing more complicated on the server side, it makes sharing more complicated on the client side. Sharing to everyone means the files are simply accessible. Requiring a password means that every new client of Kodi gets to spend 20 minutes trying to remember what the password was for their SMB share, rather than just adding a folder (which is already more complicated than it should really be).

Simply put guys, while I'm happy that we're trying to fix the broken things, I get the impression we're also trying to fix the unbroken things too.

tl;dr:

1. Requiring windows users to type anything (even a username and password) is too complicated for a Windows beginners guide.
2. Any and all instructions should be on the wiki. There is no exception. If you want to link away from the wiki, it should be for further reading or through embedding, like how we handle showing videos at the end of the written instructions.
3. Requiring a password for an SMB share is also too complicated for a beginners guide.

To this, I personally couldn't agree more. Whilst I am certainly trying to better what was once provided, I (me, myself, this guy) am certainly not trying to reinvent the wheel, refer sentence about wasting time.

[natethomas]

- The link is from the source (Windows) if they can't get it right, well, there are bigger issues.

- Windows have done the leg work, why duplicate what can already be found (rather easily too) and waste time.

- Also, it's one click, not exactly an effort. Almost all web browsers have 'tabbed browsing' as default.

It doesn't matter if it's one click. That's one click too many. The wiki exists for a reason, and that reason is to provide info. The only time you should be taken away from the wiki is for further reading.