[aerogems]

Right now I have a Shield which has the very crap 4K upscaler and I'm considering a replacement. Seems like HTPC is the only way to get everything I want, but just want to check with some of the experts before committing to spending any money. My wishlist of features is below.

• 4K HDR (10-bit HEVC)
  
• Accurate color gamut switching
  
• Quality upscaling
  
• Netflix & Prime Video support
  
• Deep control options using Harmony Hub (CEC is not a viable option as this will be just one of 6 different devices connected to the same TV and AVR)
  
• Small physical footprint
  
• Boots quickly
  
• Low power
  
• Audio
  • Needs to be able to send a stereo signal that my AVR can upmix (otherwise my Xbox One X would work)
    
  • Bitstream surround sound formats would be an added bonus
    

Right now I'm sort of eyeing either a 7th Gen i3 NUC or some Gigabyte Brix unit with a 7th/8th gen Intel CPU and Intel Graphics UHD/HD 620 or better. I also have an old original Core i7 860 system with a GTX 960 in it I've been considering pulling out of retirement; it's just really big and bulky, uses a lot of power, and doesn't exactly boot quickly unless I spend extra money slapping a SSD in it. The machine is around 7-years-old so I'm not sure how reliable things like suspend to RAM and hibernate would be. The Shield ticks most of those boxes except for the 4K upscaling, which is very noticeably worse than my KS8000 TV, so I have to run it at 1080p and essentially sacrifice any of my 4k content as its scaled down then back up. Are there any other options I may have missed?

[wrxtasy]

Have you used Kodi Leia on the Shield with it's auto Resolution switching functionality after you Whitelist wanted Refresh Rates and Resolutions in Kodi System settings ?

[aerogems]

I'm running the Leia beta. I hadn't messed with the whitelist feature, so I gave it a go a little bit ago. The display blanking for a second or two is really very disruptive for me, and especially if I'm settling in for a binge session, it really takes me out of the proper mindset. I know some will think I'm just being precious, and maybe I am, but it's still very disruptive for me. Appreciate the suggestion though, so don't mistake my comments as being ungrateful or anything.

[tredman]

I'm running the Leia beta. I hadn't messed with the whitelist feature, so I gave it a go a little bit ago. The display blanking for a second or two is really very disruptive for me, and especially if I'm settling in for a binge session, it really takes me out of the proper mindset. I know some will think I'm just being precious, and maybe I am, but it's still very disruptive for me. Appreciate the suggestion though, so don't mistake my comments as being ungrateful or anything.

That's perhaps more an issue for your TV. I have sony and Panasonic TVs, the Sony is much faster than the Panasonic.

Whichever playback method you choose you are going to at least want to use refresh rate switching, which means some form of black screen flashing.

I use Kodi on shields, Chromebox and RPI - all are pretty much of a muchness when it comes to display rate and resolution matching.

[wrxtasy]

Auto Resolution switching means you let the 4K TV upscale 1080p > 4K
That really is the ideal setup when using Kodi, unless the media player itself has good hardware upscaling already like the Apple TV 4K, that gets few complaints.

I agree with @tredman...any sort of switching for optimal video Sync, color and resolution is going to involve a black TV screen. If your TV is slow at this you really are going to have to live with it no matter which media player you buy. 1 - 2 seconds is hardly a deal breaker IMHO.

Personally if Bluray Atmos audio is not needed I would get a Plug n Play Apple TV 4K.
Far less hassle vs anything else, especially for Apps.

Netflix for example on the ATV 4K only refresh switches at the start of a TV series, if TV episode auto play continues it stays in a 24p mode until stopped. It's hardly continually disruptive.

All audio can be downmixed / remixed on that device also to 5.1 AC3 or 2.0 AC3 or you can also get multichannel LPCM audio output.

[aerogems]

Auto Resolution switching means you let the 4K TV upscale 1080p > 4K
That really is the ideal setup when using Kodi, unless the media player itself has good hardware upscaling already like the Apple TV 4K, that gets few complaints.

I agree with @tredman...any sort of switching for optimal video Sync, color and resolution is going to involve a black TV screen. If your TV is slow at this you really are going to have to live with it no matter which media player you buy. 1 - 2 seconds is hardly a deal breaker IMHO.

Personally if Bluray Atmos audio is not needed I would get a Plug n Play Apple TV 4K.
Far less hassle vs anything else, especially for Apps.

Netflix for example on the ATV 4K only refresh switches at the start of a TV series, if TV episode auto play continues it stays in a 24p mode until stopped. It's hardly continually disruptive.

All audio can be downmixed / remixed on that device also to 5.1 AC3 or 2.0 AC3 or you can also get multichannel LPCM audio output.

 I am aware of the current hardware limitations, and I am fully willing to accept that it's my problem that the display blanking while the hardware syncs. I don't blame hardware vendors, the Kodi devs, or anyone but me. 

Anyway, I have tried the ATV4K twice now, and I just cannot make it work. I have a "non-standard" setup. I have five game consoles and a set-top-box all going into my AVR, which does the input switching, and then that all feeds into my TV. So CES isn't an option, and the horrendously limited remote capabilities of the ATV4K are an absolute deal breaker because it means I can't get my Harmony Hub to work with it properly and I refuse to have a second remote just for one device; that was the whole point of getting a Harmony Hub, to consolidate all of my remotes down to one. I couldn't manage simple things, like getting the current playtime display in MrMC or Plex to show up without also pausing the video.

[tredman]

Harmony Hub worked fine for me with an ATV4k, though i didn't like the machine or mrmc in general.

[aerogems]

Harmony Hub worked fine for me with an ATV4k, though i didn't like the machine or mrmc in general.

 It works, but you can't replicate the gesture commands of the Siri remote, which most apps use for functions like... showing the current playtime window. Apps on the ATV4K don't respond to other key presses, like apps do on the Shield. With the Shield, I add a Windows PC device to my Hub config, work it into the activity, and just send keyboard commands for functions that there's no direct analog to with the Shield's remote commands. Between that and the keymap editor addon, I can set up buttons for things like adjusting the audio delay or showing the codecinfo page, or one button for the OSD page and another for the current playtime. You can get very fine grained control with Android that just is not possible with the ATV4K, where you're limited to the like 7 buttons on the remote, and even if you try remapping them, the OS traps them first, so it doesn't work.

[wrxtasy]

You want a easy one box solution, I'm here to tell you that is not possible.

Best device for non Kodi type Apps = Apple TV 4K
Best Android = NVIDIA Shield
Best SDR / HDR Kodi solution = A Gigabit equipped Vero 4K+ or AML S912 / S905D running LE or CE Kodi.
You have to use auto resolution switching There WILL be black TV screens when switching color spaces.
Best for games = XBOX One or PS4
Best 1080p 3D = Zidoo X9S

Otherwise it's very much DIY with Intel and Windows, using the Intel info in the following thread:
4K HDR Netflix has specific requirements.

4K HDR - State of Play (click)

[aerogems]

I looked at the Vero and it seemed like it was running a version of LibreELEC or you had to use their custom version of Kodi that may lag behind and have other issues, and that means no HDR. I also believe it didn't do Netflix/Amazon streaming services.

Right now, I don't have a lot of HDR content. I just have the basic Netflix plan, which to my understanding, doesn't come with the HDR options. I have some 4K content, but again, not a great deal. The HDR TV is mostly for gaming, but also making sure I'm ready for the future. I'm not looking for an all in one single device. I want to find a good set top box for Kodi/Netflix/Amazon that I can use with my Harmony Hub and Companion remote. My game consoles are for gaming, though if the Xbox One also ends up being my streaming media device, so be it. I don't NEED to be able to control any of my game consoles with the Hub, unless the Xbox One becomes my streaming media device as well, just the set top box.  I want to be able to press a single button on my Companion remote and have the hub change all the necessary inputs and other settings. I want to be able to turn on/off all the devices using the same remote, and I want to be able to configure some "advanced" features like audio delay to buttons on the remote. The Shield is essentially perfect EXCEPT for the utter crap scaler. So what I really want to find, is a Shield, but with a better scaler, or a way to turn off the scaler on the Shield completely, and yes, I know that will require nVidia making it possible. I'll be keeping a close eye on reports regarding the new Fire Stick 4K once it gets into people's hands, and also the new Mi Box, even if both of them will likely have issues with high bitrate 4K content.

On a side note, I see that after Leia, S912 support is no longer planned. What I can't find, is the reason why. Anyone have any insights?

[wrxtasy]

Sam Nazarko from OSMC Vero 4K fame will be along shortly to correct your misinformation about the OS and the Vero 4K's Kodi HDR capabilities. It does not have the ability to be turned On via IR, but there is a Standby mode.
It's designed to be on 24/7.

You already have the Kodi / Netflix / Prime video solution.
It's called the NVIDIA Shield, you HAVE to use Kodi Leia auto resolution switching with it to work around upscaling picture output quality.

Just get over the fact you are not going to get a device that does correct SDR / HDR color outputs without some sort of TV blanking whilst changing modes. You might just as well refresh / resolution switch at the same time whilst that is happening.

Yes you are being "precious" if you do not want that.
That is the reality of the current situation across all platforms if you want SDR and 4K HDR support.

Otherwise wait a few years till HDMI 2.1 is stable with all new hardware and see what benefits that brings to the table regarding switching.

[Sam.Nazarko]

The Vero 4K runs OSMC, which is a different OS to LibreELEC.
HDR is supported out of the box.

Amazon and Netflix (720p only -- for now at least) are available in Kodi v18 (Leia).

OSMC has regularly monthly updates and there is usually a delay of about a week from a Kodi release to stable.
Leia test builds are available for OSMC currently for those that wish to try them; but won't be made available via the stable update channel until they are finalised.

Hopefully this clears things up.

[Sam.Nazarko]

Sam Nazarko from OSMC Vero 4K fame will be along shortly to correct your misinformation about the OS and the Vero 4K's Kodi HDR capabilities. It does not have the ability to be turned On via IR, but there is a Standby mode.
It's designed to be on 24/7.

You already have the Kodi / Netflix / Prime video solution.
It's called the NVIDIA Shield, you HAVE to use Kodi Leia auto resolution switching with it to work around upscaling picture output quality.

Just get over the fact you are not going to get a device that does correct SDR / HDR color outputs without some sort of TV blanking whilst changing modes. You might just as well refresh / resolution switch at the same time whilst that is happening.

Yes you are being "precious" if you do not want that.
That is the reality of the current situation across all platforms if you want SDR and 4K HDR support.

Otherwise wait a few years till HDMI 2.1 is stable with all new hardware and see what benefits that brings to the table regarding switching.

You can actually change bit depth for example without adjusting refresh rate. We recently added support for this via sysfs, i.e. echo 8bitnow | sudo tee /sys/class/amhdmitx/amhdmitx0/attr. This is useful for testing things on the fly if a user reports an issue with a certain clip. Otherwise, you would normally have to wait for the codec to be closed and re-opened. 

We haven't had this request before though; so haven't developed it with this purpose in mind. I'm pretty sure triggering the HDR EOTF would cause a blank screen very briefly on most displays.

[aerogems]

The Vero 4K runs OSMC, which is a different OS to LibreELEC.
HDR is supported out of the box.

Amazon and Netflix (720p only -- for now at least) are available in Kodi v18 (Leia).

OSMC has regularly monthly updates and there is usually a delay of about a week from a Kodi release to stable.
Leia test builds are available for OSMC currently for those that wish to try them; but won't be made available via the stable update channel until they are finalised.

Hopefully this clears things up.

It's always good to see companies making a rep available to answer questions, and you've represented your employer well, raising my opinion of them. I've been aware of the Netflix addon for Kodi for a while, even if I couldn't get it to work when I tried it. For an early effort, it's not bad, and I certainly commend their ingenuity for making it possible in the first place, but it leaves much to be desired. I wasn't aware of the Amazon cousin, but if it works anything like the Netflix one... until the devs can slap some lipstick on the pig, I will stick with the official clients, as bad as they are. 

If the Vero can get native Netflix and Amazon clients (which I understand is easier said than done) I will most definitely give it a very long and hard look.

[aerogems]

It looks as if the Zidoo Z9S successor to the X9S is now available. Anyone have any thoughts on it? Looks like, for the most part, they just moved to a newer SoC. 

https://www.zidoo.tv/Product/spec/model/...3D%3D.html