[popcornmix]

in this case it being an inferior HDMI output. I am not saying its trash and I hate it, but I am saying for me, I want better.

HDMI is a digital interface. There is no good and bad hdmi transmission.
Similarly H.264 (and MVC) has a bit exact decoder.
MVC will typically be 1080p and will be displayed on a 1080p display, so no scaling and no chance for loss.

The only stage where there is any chance of "doing something wrong" is the YUV->RGB conversion.
But I have (and other users on this forum) have tested calibration files with a HDMI capture card and found all pixels within 1 least significant bit.

So, I'm having a hard time understanding where this difference is coming from.
It is possible your preferred source is doing some sharpening or other post-processing on the video, but generally for unscaled, high-quality output, that is not desired.

[nickr]

@popcornmix, I hate to try and correct someone of your standing, but h.264 is not usually lossless (although it can be). From wikipedia:

H.264 is typically used for lossy compression in the strict mathematical sense, although the amount of loss may sometimes be imperceptible. It is also possible to create truly lossless encodings using it—e.g., to have localized lossless-coded region

[popcornmix]

@popcornmix, I hate to try and correct someone of your standing, but h.264 is not usually lossless (although it can be).

Sorry - you are quite right. I was thinking one thing and typed another. I've corrected my post.
The decoder is bit exact (not all codecs are), hence all (bug free) implementations should produce identical outputs.

[daniba]

Hi Guys

I just bought a MXIII-G android tv box.

I have two major problems. I have many internal sata3 Hdd-s with sharkoon docking station.

After i plug it in the mx usb slot it doesnt happen anything. The Mx doesnt want to recognize it. The docking station works fine mith my Dune 3D base player.

The second major problem is tha i downloaded the HBO GO app from google market. I enter the app with my user id, but the program always stop because it says that i have no connection to the internet, which is not true.

Please help if you can. Thank you.

[halfelite]

@popcornmix, I hate to try and correct someone of your standing, but h.264 is not usually lossless (although it can be).

Sorry - you are quite right. I was thinking one thing and typed another. I've corrected my post.
The decoder is bit exact (not all codecs are), hence all (bug free) implementations should produce identical outputs.

Take for example these images that were posted on the shield forum http://imgur.com/a/GXfwm from this thread https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic...luation/1/ You can see the shield with the same MKV has banding issues compared to the sony BD. The shield is using nearest neighbor for everything where the sony player is using bicubic or bilinear. Do these issues come in the decoder implementation then? Or is this stuff changed after the decoder? Implementation of nearest neighbor or bicubic is a choice I would think but that would then say not all decoders output the same quality.

[hdmkv]

@daniba, MXIII-G doesn't have anything to do w/this thread (3D and HD audio). In fact, your questions have nothing to do w/Kodi. Maybe ask in the Android section, or Freaktab.

[wrxtasy]

@daniba this is the result of poorly coded Android Apps, and HBO is one of them. If you use a WiFi connection the App will likely work. The streaming service Stan throws up the same error here in Oz.

Now enough thread hijacking !

[noggin]

@daniba this is the result of poorly coded Android Apps, and HBO is one of them. If you use a WiFi connection the App will likely work. The streaming service Stan throws up the same error here in Oz.

Now enough thread hijacking !

Presumably a legacy of coders assuming that Android (rather than Android TV) apps will be running on tablets or phones with WiFi and not hardwired Ethernet connections?

This appears, to me, to be the biggest issue with all the non-Android TV boxes based on Android. They are all effectively running Tablet/Phone apps - and are optimised for a touch-based UI (which means that you usually need a mouse-replacement rather than just an IR remote with cursor keys to operate them).

[popcornmix]

Take for example these images that were posted on the shield forum http://imgur.com/a/GXfwm from this thread https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic...luation/1/ You can see the shield with the same MKV has banding issues compared to the sony BD. The shield is using nearest neighbor for everything where the sony player is using bicubic or bilinear. Do these issues come in the decoder implementation then? Or is this stuff changed after the decoder? Implementation of nearest neighbor or bicubic is a choice I would think but that would then say not all decoders output the same quality.

Nearest neighbour/bicubic/bilinear only applies to resized images. For the case of 1080p MVC displayed (without custom zooming) on a native 1080p display/projector that shouldn't come into play. But the Pi does have high quality (bicubic) resizing.

[noggin]

@popcornmix, I hate to try and correct someone of your standing, but h.264 is not usually lossless (although it can be).

Sorry - you are quite right. I was thinking one thing and typed another. I've corrected my post.
The decoder is bit exact (not all codecs are), hence all (bug free) implementations should produce identical outputs.

Take for example these images that were posted on the shield forum http://imgur.com/a/GXfwm from this thread https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic...luation/1/ You can see the shield with the same MKV has banding issues compared to the sony BD. The shield is using nearest neighbor for everything where the sony player is using bicubic or bilinear. Do these issues come in the decoder implementation then? Or is this stuff changed after the decoder? Implementation of nearest neighbor or bicubic is a choice I would think but that would then say not all decoders output the same quality.

The decoder should be transparent - though I guess poor implementations may have rounding errors in their maths?

The real harm is done by 16-235 to 0-255 re-sampling, and scaling (and deinterlacing algorithms) etc. That's not part of the H264 decoder - that's downstream of it, and scaling algorithms are only relevant if you are playing content at a non-native resolution (say 720p or 576i on a 1080p display). 1080p content displayed on a 1080p native display should have no issues with scaling - as there shouldn't be any (so bicubic, nearest neighbour, bilinear, Lanczos etc. are all irrelevant in that case)

There are also issues with some 4:2:0 to 4:2:2/4:4:4 chroma-upsampling implementations (there was a long-standing bug in at least one algorithm based on a mis-understanding of the sampling structures being used in some compression schemes - MPEG2 I think) Again - this is really downstream of the decoder.

[popcornmix]

The decoder should be transparent - though I guess poor implementations may have rounding errors in their maths?

There was a large (and expensive) test suite of encoded files and checksums that we had at Broadcom.
I would expect other hardware codecs to have similar test suites and to get the rounding right,
so I'd be surprised if it is common to get this wrong.

As you say, the YUV->RGB conversion is something more likely to be got wrong.
But it's fairly easy to test this with a calibration video and a hdmi capture card.

[wesk05]

Nearest neighbour/bicubic/bilinear only applies to resized images.

They are just interpolation algorithms and are not limited to image size scaling. They can also be used for chroma upscaling.

The different algorithms have been tested extensively on madVR
madVR Chroma Upscaling
madVR Chroma Upscaling 1080p Image quality

[D-m-x]

I'm a little confused here, maybe someone can help me out. I set up my RPI2 using Openelec to the Settings mentioned in OP, HSBS and TAB works fine, Kodi detects it as 3D due to the Filename (moviename.3D.SBS/TAB.mkv) and switches my Samsung TV to 3D Mode, but I'm confused as to how i have to name Full 3D BD iso Files and MVC MKV.

I read this post http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2108094
and from what I understood MVC MKV should be named similiar to HSBS or TAB e.g. moviename.3D.MVC.mkv, and 3D BD iso files for example moviename.3D.BluRay.iso should be enough. I tried that but Kodi won't detect it as 3D in my Skin, nor would it play back as 3D.

I'm sure this is just something small i missed

[popcornmix]

I read this post http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=...pid2108094
and from what I understood MVC MKV should be named similiar to HSBS or TAB e.g. moviename.3D.MVC.mkv, and 3D BD iso files for example moviename.3D.BluRay.iso should be enough. I tried that but Kodi won't detect it as 3D in my Skin, nor would it play back as 3D.

What build are you running?

[D-m-x]

Good question and now i see where my mistake is... Openelec 6.0 which is based on Kodi 15.2. Looked it up, I was sure until 5 Minutes ago Openelec 6.0 was Kodi 16 already.

But if Openelec based on Kodi 16/17 is released in the future I'm guessing the Name sheming should work like i descriped it?