Quote:OK, I got the point. What do you mean by real HSW? Is the desktop version G1820T (http://ark.intel.com/products/78956) enough to do the proper deinterlacing and scaling without the BYT limitations?
Yes. Make sure you run a kernel >= 3.18.3
Quote:However, BYT itx boards are without fan, extra low power 10-20W total power consumption, excellent CPU power for Kodi (and even for a Plex server with one or two simultaneous transcoding), and all this for very affordable price. I consider it ridicules to get an expensive i3 CPU for a HTPC when my good old Atom 330 + ION1 is still doing a great job in terms of speed and quality (and that includes livetv 1080i as well).
I have an old i386, which also has no fan ... BYT has a shitty GPU, no argumentation will help.
Many thanks fritsch to clearing all this up, it is of great help!
So as far as I see, if I want to go with the lowest possible total power consumption and without limitations, then G1820(T) is the best choice at the moment.
Sorry for the BYT GPU limitation, it would be a great buy if the GPU would be just a little better. It is still a great small home file and media server choice, where no GPU is required at all.
I also looked at AMD, but Kabini also has a fan and even the most low power solution consumes around the same power as G1820 in idle and load, so no reason to go with that route.
I'm really fond of low power systems to lower my bill and save the planet and I hope that Skylake will finally bring us BYT fanless mode with proper GPU at affordable price (like BYT is now, just without its limitations).
A little off-topic: I will try the new RsbPi-2 and see how can it handle livetTV 1080i if it can handle it at all. 1080p is excellent in Openelec, and 2-5W total power consumption.
I have an i286 somewhere from the god old times, would be nice to put it together
Wonder what power values that system had
Quote:I also looked at AMD, but Kabini also has a fan and even the most low power solution consumes around the same power as G1820 in idle and load, so no reason to go with that route.
Is limited to 2048x1152 and Temporal Deinterlacing.
Quote:A little off-topic: I will try the new RsbPi-2 and see how can it handle livetTV 1080i if it can handle it at all. 1080p is excellent in Openelec, and 2-5W total power consumption.
Yeah, that works okayish. 1080i is also done with something "BOB" like. 576 in higher quality (MCDI comparable).
Since there are so many platforms and deinterlacing types, resizing to consider, do you think it would be possible to have an up-to-date table with the list of deinterlacing methods, resizing methods, possible in a lowest to best quality sorting (with description added to each, like pros and cons of BOB, Temporal Deint, Lanzos3, Bilinear, etc), and to add platforms that support these functions (Intel HSW, BYT, AMD Kabini, E350, ION1, ION2, Pi1 and 2, etc)?
I know it is not a 5 minutes work, but it would be of enormous help to all Kodi system builders when deciding on which route to choose and go.
BTW, to me it looks that Pi2 is not inferior to BYT in terms of 1080i50, which is somewhat a joke
(2015-04-07, 12:59)fritsch Wrote: [ -> ] (2015-04-07, 11:06)Boulder Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know if this is the correct topic to ask this, but are the HQ scalers limited by hardware or would it be possible to implement a 4-tap Lanczos or Spline36/64?
If and only if(!) everything goes well. We will have an EGL implementation soon. This way we could save use the full rgb conversation and therefore save cycles. VPP itself also got support of a lanczos3 upscaler, which then - in theory - could be used ... but - to be honest - i would not invest a single cent in a baytrail anymore. BDW chips (even celerons) are arround the corner and a lot of boards with better gpus will arrise. BDW itself is not that much better to HSW, if you already run a real hsw, i would wait for SKL. But buying a BYT now ... is just money thrown out for nothing. I'd go with a chromebox, if you really want to invest now.
Well, I've got a Chromebox which is kind of why I asked
I usually downscale my own Blu-ray encodes to 720p and compensate the loss of sharpness by sharpening the image very slightly during the downscale phase (Bicubic with b + 2c = 0 so b is negative). To check how much I actually need to compensate, I compare the original video to the downscaled one after applying a resizer to scale back to 1080p. I just need to know which is the sharpest resizer I can use in Kodi in the near future
Some more on topic, MCDI is just great for my crappy DVB Live TV. My TV doesn't stand a chance!
Quote:Well, I've got a Chromebox which is kind of why I asked Wink I usually downscale my own Blu-ray encodes to 720p and compensate the loss of sharpness by sharpening the image very slightly during the downscale phase (Bicubic with b + 2c = 0 so b is negative). To check how much I actually need to compensate, I compare the original video to the downscaled one after applying a resizer to scale back to 1080p. I just need to know which is the sharpest resizer I can use in Kodi in the near future Angel
Why? Use a lanczos based approach, which has a "perfect" filter response.
Edit: Ah and why do you downscale at all? File size?
(2015-04-07, 14:18)gurabli Wrote: [ -> ]A little off-topic: I will try the new RsbPi-2 and see how can it handle livetTV 1080i if it can handle it at all. 1080p is excellent in Openelec, and 2-5W total power consumption.
Pi 2 does a pretty good job. SD interlaced video (480i and 576i) is de-interlaced using MMAL-Advanced (which is a hardware deinterlacing algorithm similar to YADIF 2x I believe). HD 1080i interlaced content is decoded by MMAL-Bob (which is an optimised Bob I believe with improvements over a standard Bob).
I've run DVB-T2 and DVB-S2 USB tuners into my Pi 2 and was pretty impressed with the results in OpenElec. Newer builds have a slightly fix to MMAL-Advanced that has removed an artefact or two.
Yeah, Pi2 is very good buy. Popcornmix implemented a nice "sync" method, which can output audio data without "altering" the audio data byself, but is also able to compensate delays (positve, negative), closed loop approach. As long as you don't do HEVC, it's quite nice. Funny, that the gpu is better than a BYT's :-) - though 4K decoding caps are not possible, yet.
I also have a Pi2 and suddenly realized, that this chip will be the end for other "half baked crap" out there ... strike!
Edit: The closed loop, called PLL Method, just "alters" the hdmi clock speed a little bit here and a little bit there :-)
(2015-04-07, 15:36)fritsch Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Well, I've got a Chromebox which is kind of why I asked Wink I usually downscale my own Blu-ray encodes to 720p and compensate the loss of sharpness by sharpening the image very slightly during the downscale phase (Bicubic with b + 2c = 0 so b is negative). To check how much I actually need to compensate, I compare the original video to the downscaled one after applying a resizer to scale back to 1080p. I just need to know which is the sharpest resizer I can use in Kodi in the near future Angel
Why? Use a lanczos based approach, which has a "perfect" filter response.
Edit: Ah and why do you downscale at all? File size?
I downscale because of diskspace issues (don't want to buy several external HDDs or build a NAS at this point) and also because many, many releases look just the same when downscaled to 720p and then upscaled back to 1080p upon playback. The last two movies I encoded in 1080p were the first two Hobbit ones, they are sharp and detailed as they come. Before those, I don't even remember..
I used to use a 4-tap Lanczos to downscale but I got the BicubicResize tip via Doom9 (see
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=...ost1583525) - what I like about it is that it's perfectly adjustable. Some movies need just b=-0.4,c=0.2, some require b=-0.8 to look almost exactly the same after upscaling back to 1080p with a 4-tap Lanczos or a Spline36 and doing a frame-by-frame comparison. Upon playback, it's pretty much impossible to tell the difference.
How do you compare the frames? "Visually" or with some metric? Other in that thread are of fully different oppinion.
If it works for you, it's fine. I can only jugde from properties of the function byself:
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutoria...or-web.htm
Edit: In your case, make sure you "preblur" problematic images, to not emphasize those artifacts (unwanted edges) with the sharpening. Which needs an adaptive approach anyways.
Visually, I load the original video using Avisynth in VirtualDub and adjust the script (actually have a tailor-made function) so that I can switch between the original and downscaled-upscaled video. I zoom in 150-200% and see what happens to the details. Of course, hair and all those very thin details may suffer but it's a question of balance. And my 50" TV's about 3 metres away from where I'm sitting so it'll level things up too.
Oki, that's nice. I like "pratical" solutions, that were done with own brain, e.g. "what I cannot see I don't need to care" - I do it the same way, with everything including audiophile audio stuff.
Edit: When buying stuff of course - not when we do AudioEngine coding - then we try to stay lossless of course :-)
Thx much. Good news that is ... then only the BYT turbo changes are missing.
(2015-04-07, 14:39)gurabli Wrote: [ -> ]Since there are so many platforms and deinterlacing types, resizing to consider, do you think it would be possible to have an up-to-date table with the list of deinterlacing methods, resizing methods, possible in a lowest to best quality sorting (with description added to each, like pros and cons of BOB, Temporal Deint, Lanzos3, Bilinear, etc), and to add platforms that support these functions (Intel HSW, BYT, AMD Kabini, E350, ION1, ION2, Pi1 and 2, etc)?
I know it is not a 5 minutes work, but it would be of enormous help to all Kodi system builders when deciding on which route to choose and go.
yes an cross platform overview would be much appreciated and useful for hardware decisions!